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1884-S MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR

Started by emtiem5-migration,

28 posts in this topic

MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Hi Mike and welcome.

 

USCG is not a well respected grading company, and I don't even know who owns it or grades their coins. For all we know, the coin isn't even uncirculated and would grade less than MS60 by a highly regarded grading company. So, despite the high assigned grade you mentioned, the coin could easily be worth less than $1000 (possibly less than $100), and is probably a (bad) sucker's bet.

 

Edited to add: Looking at the USCG website, I see no information about them or any contact information, so I suspect it is a self-slabber, rather than an independent grader.

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McKinley-migration

McKinley-migration

Posted
Posted

i'd bet $406,000 that it's either cleaned, the surfaces aren't original, or it's fake, or whatever.. somehow it's been messed with, and not worth anything close to the price tag they've got on it.

 

an uncirulated 84S is a very rare coin. if it were the real deal it'd be in a real slab.. nobody would send it to USCG. even if it's a guy making slabs in his basement, HE would've sent it to a real grading service. think about it.. and then pass on it i say.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

I'm guessing that this is the coin you were asking about?

 

If so, it looks like it should grade less than MS60. And if you were the buyer, I'd strongly urge you to void the transaction/make use of the seller's return policy which states :"YOU MAY RETURN THE ITEM WITHIN 7 DAYS OF RECEIPT FOR ANY REASON, NO QUESTIONS ASKED AS LONG AS THE COIN IS NOT REMOVED FROM THE HOLDER AND THE HOLDER IS NOT DAMAGED OR TAMPERED WITH."

 

And no matter what he says, don't let him talk you into keeping it. Remember, I have nothing to gain by telling you this/the truth, but he has plenty to gain by talking you into that coin.

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted

EBAY should not allow this type a grading fraud to continue. They refuse to address the issue. Think of the potential loss in revenues if they cracked down. Eventually EBAY will be sued and it will not be that difficult to prove that a case against them.

As for the coin I agree with Mark Feld that it is probably Au. This coin is rare at MS61 and above.

 

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted
EBAY should not allow this type a grading fraud to continue.

Right ebay should approve the grade of every coin sold on the site. So every coin needs to be sent to the new eBay grading approval service at a cost of $30 before it is allowed to be sold on the website. And of course if they don't approve then it will be cracked out of what ever holder it is in and can only be offered as a raw coin.

 

Does that meet with your approval? :D

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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

Posted
Posted
Conder are you serious?? Do you have as clue as to how many coin scams there are on EBAY ?? They don’t do enough about it. USCG is blatant grading fraud.
Mark,,, Conder has more than a clue.....

You need to Identify who you are speaking to before you look foolish.

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awb

awb

Posted
Posted
EBAY should not allow this type a grading fraud to continue.

Right ebay should approve the grade of every coin sold on the site. So every coin needs to be sent to the new eBay grading approval service at a cost of $30 before it is allowed to be sold on the website. And of course if they don't approve then it will be cracked out of what ever holder it is in and can only be offered as a raw coin.

 

Does that meet with your approval? :D

Yes! Let's all move to the Nanny State! To hell to buyer beware!

 

 

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted

How do I look foolish by saying EBAy is full of grading fraud ? It is a scammers paradise. I really don’t care who Conder is, apparently he thinks that all the Self Slabbing BS on EBAY is just fine. He totally missed the point of my post. I do not think EBAY should police every coin that is being sold. The obvious scams should be looked at more closely. Other then counterfeit coins, the biggest coin scam on EBAY is grading fraud.

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prudden

prudden

Posted
Posted

There's something wrong with it ,somewhere.I'm betting on the glued on "S" like was done on 38 D Walker and others. No one in their right mind would put this in anything but a PCGS or NGC slab.

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jgrinz

jgrinz

Posted
Posted
Conder are you serious?? Do you have as clue as to how many coin scams there are on EBAY ?? They don’t do enough about it. USCG is blatant grading fraud.

 

MARK T - Being a newbie you will be forgiven but just to make a point do a search for Conder101 for messages posted and READ SOME OF HIS POSTS. You will learn more in those messages than you will learn in almost a lifetime of experience coin information.

 

You will also note he has a tendency for sarchasm...

 

(Sarcasm) A keen, reproachful expression; a satirical remark uttered with some degree of scorn or contempt; a taunt; a gibe; a cutting jest.)

 

You will learn which is which as you LEARN here on the NGC boards the ins and outs of coinocity (I made that one up)

 

Welcome aboard.

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted

Mark T

 

Two comments. One, you missed the smilely at the end of my post. Two, read awb's reply to my comment. He seems to have understood me completely. (Carefully read the last part of jgrinz's post as well. He is right I do tend to be somewhat cynical and many of my posts do tend to be laced with sarcasm)

 

Then if you still don't understand I'll be happy to elaborate.

 

Oh and in case you don't recognize it awb is also being sarcastic along the same lines as my post.

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted

I am not really that much of a “newbie” . No need to condescend by giving me a definition of Sarcasm – or maybe that was just more sarcasm :-} Yes Conder I did miss the smiley.

The whole EBAY Self slabbing scam really gets under my skin. I thought EBAY was suppose to be working with the ANA to “regulate” which slabbed coins are acceptable to sell. E BAY was sued by a group of third tier slabbers because of this.

Maybe if EBAY did not have so many uneducated buyers we would not be having this conversation.

Conder when I have a few free days I will read all 1796 of your posts :-}

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
I am not really that much of a “newbie” . No need to condescend by giving me a definition of Sarcasm – or maybe that was just more sarcasm :-} Yes Conder I did miss the smiley.

The whole EBAY Self slabbing scam really gets under my skin. I thought EBAY was suppose to be working with the ANA to “regulate” which slabbed coins are acceptable to sell. E BAY was sued by a group of third tier slabbers because of this.

Maybe if EBAY did not have so many uneducated buyers we would not be having this conversation.

Conder when I have a few free days I will read all 1796 of your posts :-}

Unfortunately and ironically, when Ebay began restricting listings of "certified" coins to the small list of approved grading companies, they apparently simultaneously dropped their efforts against blatant over-grading self slabbers, etc. At one time, they would at least occasionally end listings by sellers who were obviously trying to mislead uninformed buyers. It seems as if they have completely abandoned that.
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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted
I am not really that much of a “newbie” . No need to condescend by giving me a definition of Sarcasm

Unfortunately the only guide we have as to how much of a "newbie" a person is is by their post count. This means that a newly arrived experienced collector appears to be a newbie. Usually such a collectors post count rises quickly or the quality of the posts and comments soon identify them as being experienced. But it takes time for this to happen.

 

The whole EBAY Self slabbing scam really gets under my skin.

I can understand that but who has the authority to tell someone that they can't start a slabbing service? For all we know the next new one could be as good as the current top two, but if they are not allowed to even start and/or market their product will never know.

 

thought EBAY was suppose to be working with the ANA to “regulate” which slabbed coins are acceptable to sell.

No the "regulating" of which slabs were allowed to be listed in the titles and how the others can be listed in the description was strictly eBay. They may have asked the ANA for some input but since the ANA has no part of eBay the final decision was eBay's. The major working between eBay and the ANA was over the listing of counterfeits. And that has pretty much collapsed if it isn't completely gone. (Sorry I mean the working with the ANA is gone, not the listing of counterfeits. Those are going strong.)

 

E BAY was sued by a group of third tier slabbers because of this.

And several of the services named as plaintiffs in the suit had no part of it. Their names were added by the primary instigator of the suit. I'm not positive but I believe that suit was recently thrown out.

 

Maybe if EBAY did not have so many uneducated buyers we would not be having this conversation.

Very true, the problem is how to keep the uneducated buyers off of ebay? :D "I'm sorry sir but before you are allowed to bid on coins you must complete and pass an examination on numismatics. There will also be supplemental examinations for each sub-category in the Coins and Currency section that you enter to make sure you are qualified to bid in that section." Yeah, that ought to do it. :D

 

Conder when I have a few free days I will read all 1796 of your posts :-}

Now that's what I like! A man with a sense of humor!

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
AU = $260, 60 = $4600. it sold for $5100. i wonder what's wrong with it.. ;)

I will bet it is one of two things: 1. cleaned, or 2. added mintmark.

 

USCG is a terrible company, and I would not trust their grade on any coin for any reason.

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jgrinz

jgrinz

Posted
Posted
I am not really that much of a “newbie” . No need to condescend by giving me a definition of Sarcasm – or maybe that was just more sarcasm :-} Yes Conder I did miss the smiley.

 

I was not being condescending :) , as explained by Conder101, post count maybe made your a lurker but you will see most regular posters here will welcome

you as a newbie to this board. We here tend to nurture the newie unlike ATS ( Across The Street aka PCGS' Board)

 

Conder when I have a few free days I will read all 1796 of your posts :-}

 

I am serious the man is a wealth of knowledge - Skim through and pick a subject line where he PIPES up / SPOUTS off or Interjects his otherworldly wisdom and it will make you a better man :):insane:

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Mark T

Mark T

Posted
Posted

Ok Guys ya all got me. I am a lurking , self slabber, with no sense of humor. My MS65’s are really AU and they are cleaned . I use lousy photos in an attempt to hide what the coin really looks like. I offer a refund but most of the buyers who purchased my coins won’t return them because they think they are getting a great coin. I make a lot of money from peoples ignorance about the hobby. And to top it off I am considered a newbie :-}

Geez I just wanted to be like the rest of ya all – Whimper -}.

 

I came back to the hobby earlier this year after a 20 year break. I wanted to sell off all my bulk silver because of silver prices. It renewed my interest in the hobby so I decided to limp back in and purchase some coins . My first purchase was a raw Bust Half on EBAY. This seller tried unsuccessfully to pull a bait and switch on me. Paypal took care of this promptly. My second purchase was a group of raw coins from another E BAY seller. Their photos looked great however all the coins were over graded, two went back but I kept the other 2 because the prices paid for the actual grade was reasonable. Needless to say I had a very quick learning curve and needed to re educate myself fast. The one thing I immediately noticed on EBAY was all the third party slabbers. I dug deeper and was amazed by the junk coins being offered in slabs from companies I never heard of. So it all boils down to this. Some of these sellers are making a lot of money selling this junk while taking business away from honest sellers. Sure I believe in free enterprise and I know grading is considered subjective but to grade a coin MS65 when the person grading the coin has cleaned it and knows it is at best a AU 55 is fraud. Also I am sure you guys know what SGS and Aboncom have in common.

 

FYI - I do most of my buying now from Heritage or Bowers.

 

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Oldtrader3

Oldtrader3

Posted
Posted

I hope also that the OP has read the responses to his post and did not purchase this 1884-S dollar. I have only owned one 1884-S Morgan, which I bought 30 years ago. It was a fake and PCGS caught the added mintmark during grading. The honest dealer refunded my money because I had been suspicious about the MM placement when I bought the coin. The dealer agreed during purchase, that if the coin didn't grade, I would get a refund.

 

It is a major disappointment that the new managers of Ebay have totally gone away from working with the ANA on counterfeit detection. The last several counterfeits that I reported were given email acknowlegement and then were sold on Ebay with no intervention. I have given up on Ebay. I hope that Tiffany's appealed, counterfeit lawsuit is heard by more open-minded judge this time, and that Ebay gets creamed in court as they did in France recently (for selling counterfeit designer merchandise).

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