Why/why not submit coins for CAC evaluation

[DirtyGoldMan]

The only reason that I can see for me to pay for the CAC sticker is if I am going to sell high-grade, expensive, commonly-traded coins. Being that I own very few that fall into that category, and I do not see selling many coins in the near-term (just a coin here and a coin there), I do not see the benefit to me to having my coins stickered. OTOH, if I had a set of high-grade Morgan DMPLs that I was shopping or consigning to auction, I think it would be in my best interest to have them CAC'ed.

 

As for buying CAC stickered coins, I am taking the approach that if an expensive coin has a sticker, great, if not, that is usually okay. When I see an expensive coin in the inventory of a dealer who has a significant proportion of the inventory stickered, it certainly gives me pause. If I like the coin, I will usually buy it anyway. If it is an area in which I have little experience, I may not. It depends a lot on the coin, the price, and my confidence level in the purchase.

 

Now, more importantly, has anyone yet seen a coin with the Eagle Eye sticker AND the CAC sticker? If so, how are the stickers arranged on the slab?

[MikeInFL]

I can think of at least two reasons why one might consider sending your coins to the CAC other than the reason you suggest (resale value)....

 

How confident are you in your grading skills? Would you find value in another opinion?

How confident are you in spotting problematic coins (AT and putty being two examples)?

 

At least for me, resale value was the last on the list of reasons to send coins to the CAC....Mike

 

p.s. I haven't seen an EE and CAC sticker on a slab, and I'd suppose it has to be sent to the CAC first, then to Rick, as one of the requirement for submission to the CAC is "Coin holders should be clean and free of stickers."

[James_OldeTowne]

Is it possible that the CAC sticker has taken on a negative connotation to the extent that it can turn potential buyers away from a coin? In other words, can it acquire an automatic "overhyped/overpriced" connotation in the minds of some folks?

 

I have to admit that I've become that way about PCGS coins. When a vest-pocket dealer offers a batch of coins, I find that I almost never inquire about the ones in PCGS holders, because I automatically assume they will be overpriced.

 

Yes, I know, just me !

[MikeInFL]

James, While I think you may have a point...IMO, generalizations are bad, and I think you are a bit jaded. At least to me, it's about two things: the coin and the price. Like you said in another thread -- and I think there's a lot of truth in it -- the rest is noise...Mike

[IGWT]

I just purchased a piece that the dealer had CACified. I'm absolutely befuddled (and amused) that it was submitted for a sticker. I'll post a picture some day . . . .

[DirtyGoldMan]

I just purchased a piece that the dealer had CACified. I'm absolutely befuddled (and amused) that it was submitted for a sticker. I'll post a picture some day . . . .

 

There are numerous coins that I have seen stickered that similarly befuddle me, including, no offense intended, ones that were submitted by MikeinFL.

 

As I relayed to someone else recently, I do not believe that the CAC is right for all coins, all collectors, and all circumstances.

[James_OldeTowne]

James, While I think you may have a point...IMO, generalizations are bad, and I think you are a bit jaded. At least to me, it's about two things: the coin and the price. Like you said in another thread -- and I think there's a lot of truth in it -- the rest is noise...Mike

Mike, I have no doubt you are correct - I am getting jaded. There just seems to be too much emphasis on "grade this" and "grade that", and "PQ this" and "sticker that" today.

 

It's gotten to a point of "grading overload". I wish we could just draw a line somewhere and say - enough is enough, can I please just enjoy my coins now, whether or not they meet someone's dreamed up "standard"? And, maybe I'm OK with it not being perfectly original, or perfectly graded, or in the perfect holder.

 

 

I know, I know, jaded !

 

Robert, sorry to derail the thread - back to our regularly scheduled programming!

[DirtyGoldMan]

James, While I think you may have a point...IMO, generalizations are bad, and I think you are a bit jaded. At least to me, it's about two things: the coin and the price. Like you said in another thread -- and I think there's a lot of truth in it -- the rest is noise...Mike

Mike, I have no doubt you are correct - I am getting jaded. There just seems to be too much emphasis on "grade this" and "grade that", and "PQ this" and "sticker that" today.

 

It's gotten to a point of "grading overload". I wish we could just draw a line somewhere and say - enough is enough, can I please just enjoy my coins now, whether or not they meet someone's dreamed up "standard"? And, maybe I'm OK with it not being perfectly original, or perfectly graded, or in the perfectly holder.

 

 

I know, I know, jaded !

 

Robert, sorry to derail the thread - back to our regularly scheduled programming!

 

James,

 

I agree with your point. Next time you see me, I will show you some of my latest acquisitions. Many are...sit down...raw!

[WinstonWare]

Why - I can only imagine submitting coins to sell them. Perhaps the CAC sticker(s) would increase the liquidity of the coin(s).

 

Why not - I'm happy with my coins the way they are. It simply isn't relevant to me if an expert believes that they are good for their assigned grade.

[CHABSENTIA]

The only reason that I can see for me to pay for the CAC sticker is if I am going to sell high-grade, expensive, commonly-traded coins. Being that I own very few that fall into that category, and I do not see selling many coins in the near-term (just a coin here and a coin there), I do not see the benefit to me to having my coins stickered. OTOH, if I had a set of high-grade Morgan DMPLs that I was shopping or consigning to auction, I think it would be in my best interest to have them CAC'ed.

 

As for buying CAC stickered coins, I am taking the approach that if an expensive coin has a sticker, great, if not, that is usually okay. When I see an expensive coin in the inventory of a dealer who has a significant proportion of the inventory stickered, it certainly gives me pause. If I like the coin, I will usually buy it anyway. If it is an area in which I have little experience, I may not. It depends a lot on the coin, the price, and my confidence level in the purchase.

 

Now, more importantly, has anyone yet seen a coin with the Eagle Eye sticker AND the CAC sticker? If so, how are the stickers arranged on the slab?

 

There is a Pro and Con article on CAC in the latest issue of "Coin World" by two diifferent Collectors.

[BillJones]

I really have no reason to mess with CAC. The main motivation would be if I were thinking of selling my collection, which I am not.

 

If CAC succeeds in its goal, the grading on the slabs that we own will be invalidated unless it has a CAC sticker. That stinks. I have no desire to feed CAC money, which will make it stronger.

 

If grading standards are as ephemeral as CAC would make us believe then we could well see the situation where CAC stickers are meaningless in a few years, and some other certification will be necessary. For that reason fooling with CAC is waste of money if you are going to hold on to your collection for the foreseeable future.

 

[MarkFeld]

If CAC succeeds in its goal, the grading on the slabs that we own will be invalidated unless it has a CAC sticker

That is not CAC's goal, even if you choose to make that claim, Bill.

[BillJones]

If CAC succeeds in its goal, the grading on the slabs that we own will be invalidated unless it has a CAC sticker

That is not CAC's goal, even if you choose to make that claim, Bill.

 

Mark, I stand to be out a lot of money if CAC succeeds. I don't want to have to pay CAC and the post office to have my entire collection double certified. Several years ago I spend over $3,000 to have my significant raw coins certified the first time. Once is enough.

 

There are those of us have supported the coin market for many, many years, who are tied of the games, Mark. If you can't respect our position then we shall agree to disagree, but I'm tired of the grading and the market manipulation garbage.

[MarkFeld]

If CAC succeeds in its goal, the grading on the slabs that we own will be invalidated unless it has a CAC sticker

That is not CAC's goal, even if you choose to make that claim, Bill.

 

Mark, I stand to be out a lot of money if CAC succeeds. I don't want to have to pay CAC and the post office to have my entire collection double certified. Several years ago I spend over $3,000 to have my significant raw coins certified the first time. Once is enough.

 

There are those of us have supported the coin market for many, many years, who are tied of the games, Mark. If you can't respect our position then we shall agree to disagree, but I'm tired of the grading and the market manipulation garbage.

Bill, even if all of what you just said is true and comes to pass, that does not in any way mean, as you said, that "If CAC succeeds in its goal, the grading on the slabs that we own will be invalidated unless it has a CAC sticker". My comments weren't directed at your position with respect to CAC, but rather, your incorrect characterization of their goal(s).

 

And by the way, based on the images of various coins of yours that you have posted here, I seriously doubt that you would need to have your collection "double certified" in order to obtain full value for it. In case you're feeling argumentative and were blinded to that comment, it was a sincere compliment.

[WoodenJefferson]

For some, an element of self satisfaction or some may call it ego, curiosity, or whatever you think is appropriate in this line of thought, to have someone else other than themselves put their seal of approval on a collectable.

 

Some may look at it like a certified appraisal that lends credence to the original condition of the collectable, verifying the value as once indicated.

 

However you feel how this service is connected to a hobby, at least we still have a choice. The hardcore collectors (not the flippers/incentive oriented) will still recognize raw coins and top tier graded coins as a entity that a single opinion cannot sway.

 

[MikeInFL]

The only reason that I can see for me to pay for the CAC sticker is if I am going to sell high-grade, expensive, commonly-traded coins. Being that I own very few that fall into that category, and I do not see selling many coins in the near-term (just a coin here and a coin there), I do not see the benefit to me to having my coins stickered. OTOH, if I had a set of high-grade Morgan DMPLs that I was shopping or consigning to auction, I think it would be in my best interest to have them CAC'ed.

 

As for buying CAC stickered coins, I am taking the approach that if an expensive coin has a sticker, great, if not, that is usually okay. When I see an expensive coin in the inventory of a dealer who has a significant proportion of the inventory stickered, it certainly gives me pause. If I like the coin, I will usually buy it anyway. If it is an area in which I have little experience, I may not. It depends a lot on the coin, the price, and my confidence level in the purchase.

 

Now, more importantly, has anyone yet seen a coin with the Eagle Eye sticker AND the CAC sticker? If so, how are the stickers arranged on the slab?

 

There is a Pro and Con article on CAC in the latest issue of "Coin World" by two diifferent Collectors.

 

Here are the registry sets of the collector who represented the "con" side of the argument:

 

http://www.collectors-society.com/PublicUserHome.aspx?PeopleID=7539

 

I'll leave it up to you (and others) to draw their own conclusions if the types of coins he collects (almost entirely ultra-high grade NGC coins, and from the looks of it many millions of dollars worth) has influenced his position -- but I have to wonder, understanding the above, if he's able to be objective or if he's protecting his investment.

 

That said, the only "con" that resonated with me is the point he made that the TPGs get to see the edge of the coin, and the CAC does not. The remainder of his arguments were poorly thought out, in my opinion, and have been effectively debunked in discussions on this forum and in the "pro" argument.

 

Respectfully...Mike