First strikes...so what!

[RI AL]

Can anyone explain why "first strikes" on a slab makes the coin any more special than a non-first strike? My $50 buffalo is a 2006 MS 70 "first strike" in an NGC slab. I bought it beacuse the price was in budget...not because it was a "first strike". Anyway...how many "first strikes" can there be in a series? Are first strikes more desireable and if so, why?

 

RI AL

[jackson64]

I don't get it either....especially when the mint has confirmed that "first strike" doesn't mean first struck, just first shipped and submitted for grading....very silly and almost borders on deceptive and dishonest

[Jeffrey Cardona]

There is no such thing as a first strike. It was nothing more then a marketing ploy by NGC and PCGS. NGC no longer makes that designation (they settled a lawsuit about it) but I am not sure if PCGS still does it.

 

The US Mint has stated that it does not keep track of which coin is minted 1st, 2nd, 100,000th or 1,000,000th. They are all packaged and placed in bins and when you make an order, it is taken from the bin and mailed to you. There is no way of knowing whether you're getting #1 or #500,000, or #1,000,000 off the press. The mint also swaps out the dies during the minting process because they wear down. Also they mint maybe in the area of 40%-50% of the projected amount of coins before they even go on sale....Proof SAE as an example.

 

Don't fall for the "Early Release" designation either. The mint does not release coins for sale to the public before their official sale date. This is another marketing ploy. The only difference between and "Early Release" and one that is not is when they are submitted to the grading service to get graded. It has nothing to do with the US Mint or when they sell their coins.

 

NumisMedia doesn't give a value for those desiginations but for some reason they usually go for about 10% more (in my experience) then the non designated ones.

 

But the most important thing to remember is... IT IS YOUR COLLECTION... so do as you enjoy with them but always ask questions and get as educated as possible.

[RI AL]

Very interesting, guys. Thanks for educating me!!

 

RI AL

 

 

[MikeInFL]

Can anyone explain why "first strikes" on a slab makes the coin any more special than a non-first strike? My $50 buffalo is a 2006 MS 70 "first strike" in an NGC slab. I bought it beacuse the price was in budget...not because it was a "first strike". Anyway...how many "first strikes" can there be in a series? Are first strikes more desireable and if so, why?

 

IMO, it is a combination of marketing, ignorance, and a bordering-on-fraudulent redefining of a numismatic term. To me "first strikes" are nothing but overpriced and overhyped...Mike

[Conder101]

Anyway...how many "first strikes" can there be in a series?

By the TPG's definitions, about six months worth of production. They start striking them (silver eagles) in August of the year before the date on the coin, and as long as the packing date in the unopened box is before Jan 31st of the year on the coin it is eligible for First Strike/Early Release.

[James_OldeTowne]

The best analogy is when a kid says to another kid "my dad can beat up your dad". It's just a way for someone to justify to someone else paying stupid money for a coin.\

 

"My coin says first strike and yours doesn't. Nanny-nanny boo-boo!"

[cpm9ball]

Even in a nuclear war, first strike, doesn't mean a thing. Everybody gets it in the end.

 

Chris

[RI AL]

So, as an analogy, "first strikes" is kind of like what you frequently see in the grocery stores these days..."new package...same great product"...(except these days they are reducing the AMOUNT of the product in those spiffy new packages...but the price remains the same).

 

RI AL

[halfpint]

The best analogy is when a kid says to another kid "my dad can beat up your dad". It's just a way for someone to justify to someone else paying stupid money for a coin.\

 

"My coin says first strike and yours doesn't. Nanny-nanny boo-boo!"

 

 

sorta how i feel about the CAC stickers.

[halfpint]

Even in a nuclear war, first strike, doesn't mean a thing. Everybody gets it in the end.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

...............

[steve's coins-migration]

They mean nothing to me either but they sure sell for a lot more money. My first strike 08/07 PCGS70 is worth a lot more than a regular strike. The same with my 69's.

[Oldtrader3]

Bottom Line: It is another collector fraud perpetrated by those dealers and TPG's who want to do you out of your money for some illusory attribute.

[BillJones]

There have been really only two times in U.S. mint history when first strike might have met anything. In the early days of the mint the first strikes from a new die had the chance to be the sharpest impressions of the design with the best luster. Other factors mattered too, however. If the men who were running the presses were not squeezing the coins to the fullest extent, the resulting pieces would not be as sharp. And there seems to have been times when the first mint did not strike coins to the fullest extent to increase the useful life of the dies.

 

The other periods have been during Proof coin manufacturing. For most eras the first Proof coins had the cameo look to them with frosted devices and mirrored fields. After the first dozen or so coins were struck, the frosted devices faded because the friction between the dies and the planchet polished off the frosted look. The dies could be repolished which resulted in further cameo coins, but these pieces sometimes had die polish marks. Those marks sometimes made the resulting coins less than ideal, and usually not as nice as the true "first strike" Proof coins.

 

With today's modern minting methods (which include cameo devices for all Proof coins) and distribution policies, the term "first strike" is nothing but marketing hype. But don't post that bit of information on the PCGS message board. The monitors over there will censure your message and probably kick you off for not towing their line and disagreeing with their marketing program.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Not only that, but the ironic thing is that today, the very first coins off the dies have an excellent chance not to be the best struck! Mint workers make adjustments to strike pressure throughout the lifetime use of the dies, and it is very possible that the "first strikes" will actually be worse than later strikes if the dies were initially set with too little pressure.

[RWB]

Until the era of chrome plated dies, the first few hundred coins struck from new dies generally were sharper and more detailed than later strikes. This was due to wear and changes in metal flow in the dies. It is particularly noticeable on the new designs from 1907-1917, with Buffalo nickels being the most evident example. (This assumes die setup was correctly performed before production began.)

[Coin]

The US Mint First Day Coin Covers have,supposedly, first day of striking, coins in them . These apear to be about the only ones close to being 'prove-able' as near to first stikings ....even if the quality of these coins can vary through the broad spectrum .

I have personally never liked the idea of marketing coins as 'first strike' as a way to skew the older perceptions of the term's meaning , however , there are those that choose to collect these and pay any price variations either up or down for the LABEL with the wording. So be it . If it helps to bring in more profits to the TPG , then maybe they could keep the costs down when it comes time for me to send in another batch of 'regular' labelled coins.

 

I believe NGC uses the term "Early Release" now , although some of the old monikers of 'first strike' are still out in the market .

 

For those that need to feed the 'bragging rights' desires , I guess they could produce another label , and charge an additional $50-100 fee ,that reads :

" Premium Grading" .

The less than or equally marvelous coins would then be a testament to the owner's ability to throw money at something fad-ish . This extra fee could enrich the coffers of the TPGs enough so that the TPG employees could get raises and ensure that we have a way to keep the great ones employed and busy working on our coins....and possibly a price break on our regular coin grading?

[19Lyds]

IMO, First Stike/Early Release is simply a method which TPG's offer that adds some label "variety" under specific guide lines to an otherwise boring bullion product. The same could be said for Lance Armstrong slabs, 9/11 Slabs and the American Hero Series of PCGS SAE's. No numismatic differences, just "something" different.

 

I guess you could even contrast that with a Registry Set Pedigree which only indicates that so and so owned the coin at one time. Some folks like to collect those as well and will even pay premiums for them.

 

Labels in and of themselves offers no numismatic value or differences at all, even with graded coins as its really the coin that counts and which person is willing to buy it. Grades assigned to coins are always disputed or questioned followed by either resubmission with downgrades or even upgrades until the submitter can either maximize his/her profits or the slab fits within his/her specific set.

 

Botom line........buy what you want and quit worrying about what the other guy is buying.