bad experience at coin shop

[jesbroken]

I have been in Myrtle Beach for the last week selling some BU washington quarters. I had visited a local coin shop while here and had picked out a few coins I was interested in to make offers on. I finalized my coin sales and went back to Worldwide Coin Shop today to see if we could do business with each other. I also had an 1853 W/A&Rays LSQ that I may have traded or sold as the case allowed. When I went in he was waiting on some folks(very small shop), so I stayed out of the way. An elderly couple(in their 80's) was waiting before me and had their hands full of Morgan $'s, maybe 20 or so to sell , along with some silver dimes. I waited my turn and could not help but overhear the transaction. The owner of the shop told them they were not worth much not being uncirculated and that silver was way down. I didn't take any real notice to the conversation until I came back around and overheard the final total of the sale----$81.xx. I could have fallen over, as I said before, at least 20 Morgans were in their hands plus mercury dimes(I didn't pay attention to how many, but maybe most of a roll). They just looked at each other with hurt expressions and signed the agreement and walked out.

The owner said, "Sorry, you had to wait", to which I answered "me too" and walked out. I had parked beside these folks and they were not even to their vehicle yet, when I got to mine. I started not to say anything but it was eating at me. I asked them, if they did not mind telling me, what he had paid them for their Morgans. The lady said, $5.50 less a fee. So, it turns out their was 16 Morgans and 30 some dimes that they got $80.xx for. I normally stay out of these issues, but I told them they had not been given a fair value for their silver and if they wished to go back in, I would go with them to plead their case. The man said, thank you, but the lady was insulted that I would speak of it and got in her car and slammed the door. The man nodded and got in his side and they left. I did not go back in and confront the dealer , but I now wish that I had. What do you think.

I will never go back in this shop again.

Jim

[cpm9ball]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Morgans the dealer claimed were circulated were such common dates like the 84S, 89CC, 93S, etc.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

What do you think.

I think that when I feel that strongly about something, I usually speak up. And I would have let the dealer know how I felt, even knowing he probably wouldn't care.

[WinstonWare]

Well that stinks but really, once the transaction was made, what could you have done? You could go into the guy's shop and argue with him but I doubt that it would have done much and any escalation beyond that would have only gotten you in trouble

[cladking]

I'd never interfere in a dealer's transaction but if he were ripping someone off so badly that I'd never do business with him then I'd put in an offer myself when I heard his total.

 

It's hardly illegal and you can be certain you'll be completing the deal on the street.

 

$81 is a ripoff.

[jackson64]

sickening...I would have said something to the shop owner---it could have been my own grandparents or parents...I would have maybe even threatened to picket the guys store or run a newspaper ad if he didn't call the old couple back and give them their fair money..

 

when morally outraged and justified, I have been known to go a bit over the top..

[kryptonitecomics]

What do you think.

I think that when I feel that strongly about something, I usually speak up. And I would have let the dealer know how I felt, even knowing he probably wouldn't care.

 

I agree with you that he probably wouldn't care.....I might have been inclined to speak up while they were in the shop but I know that can be dicey sometime so since I wasn't there....it's not fair to say I would have spoken up for sure.....tough situation and we know it happens, but it's a real shame when folks get taken advantage of like that

[James_OldeTowne]

On the flip side, it sounds as if these elderly folks did not do anywhere near proper research. Common sense would be not to sell something which you know is valuable to the first offer you get. I am not defending the "coin dealer" in any way whatsoever, but let's be honest and admit that these folks failed miserably in their own duty to themselves, IF getting top, or even reasonable money was their goal.

 

The only thing I would have done would have been to suggest to them that in the future, if they had more coins to sell, I would gladly make a competing and likely higher offer.

[MikeInFL]

Unfortunately, I think that something similar goes on at 90+% of B&M dealers. Or at least it does around here. You're probably better off to have kept your mouth shut and approached them after they left, as dealers don't respond well to people cluing in potential suckers.

[bsshog40]

On the flip side, it sounds as if these elderly folks did not do anywhere near proper research. Common sense would be not to sell something which you know is valuable to the first offer you get. I am not defending the "coin dealer" in any way whatsoever, but let's be honest and admit that these folks failed miserably in their own duty to themselves, IF getting top, or even reasonable money was their goal.

 

The only thing I would have done would have been to suggest to them that in the future, if they had more coins to sell, I would gladly make a competing and likely higher offer.

 

I kind of agree with you James, but I also know that there are alot of elderly people with Computers and so forth to be able to research for themselves. Hard to tell where they got them from also. If the gentleman had purchased them in the past, then maybe he should have had some type of info on them. Maybe also just given to them by someone else with no knowledge.

 

BTW, Jim, I would have walked out like you did also, but considering my mood at the time, I may have said more than just see you later. I may have mentioned I was going to sell some coins also til I seen how you treated the customers before me.

[jesbroken]

My only satisfaction will be in not spending any of the $1200 that was in my pocket in cash in his store. Not saying that I would have spent that, but being purely disposable income, I could have should the coin not on display show up.

Very few elderly people are even computer aware much less internet savvy. I didn't mention this but the man offered to sell an envelope full of silver certificates, all $1 and $2 and was offered barely over their true value(less than 50% over value-to which the man refused thank goodness, I know they are not valuable other than date specific, but this sucks-he said he had owned them and the silver for over 50 odd years.

Just a sickening event, which has soured this happy week that I have enjoyed, until now. I am so used to dealing with individuals and ebay(I'll never say anything bad about ebay sellers as none have ever burnt me this badly-there maybe some deadbeats on ebay, but I doubt they are any worse than this seller).

I'll not bore you anymore with this post

Thanks for all the responses.

Jim

 

 

[PrezErrors]

I disagree with James there are lots of people out there that don't know the value of coins or other things of value.

Just because you or I do research before buying or selling doesn't mean that everybody does. We have the experience of dealing with coins.

These poor people where putting trust in a coin dealer whom they trusted to be honest and get a fair deal.

There are lots of people putting coins on ebay that they don't know the value off and when we win it " We Got A Great Deal " and talk about it on this form.

"How many of us e-mail the seller and tell them they should have researched it first before putting it on ebay"

If I was in that shop I would have said something to those poor folks and probibly dragged them out of there. I hate disonesty in any occupation whether it be coins, antiques or anything else.

The point is they got ripped off by a dishonest person!!!!

[PrezErrors]

Great post Jim, I would feel the same way. You are not to blame in anyway for what happened in that store. If anything we are all learning something from your story and that a positive thing, Thanks, Charlie (marchas45)

[EZ_E]

That dealer is a worm but the sellers aren't much better considering their ignorance and then their attitude when you told them what's up. Bad deal altogether. I had a similar experience with squirrelly people today. It was a sour note that topped off an otherwise great day.

[James_OldeTowne]

Let's please remember that an elderly person who is apparently able to drive a car just fine certainly does need not the internet to research the value of silver dollars! All he had to do was go to any typical bookstore and without having to actually buy a Redbook, could have looked up the value of silver dollars. Even knowing nothing about grading, he could have taken the very cheapest price in the entire book - and found that it was triple or quadruple the offer received!

 

There's no doubt that if I had parents or grandparents in such a situation, I hope someone would be kind enough to come to their aid, or treat them right. But we can't assume that every elderly couple in the world, or even most of them, are completely incapable of doing some minimal amount of research, can we?

 

I see two parties who both bear part of the blame for a transaction gone awry. Education was lacking for one party, and morals the other.

[bsshog40]

Let's please remember that an elderly person who is apparently able to drive a car just fine certainly does need not the internet to research the value of silver dollars! All he had to do was go to any typical bookstore and without having to actually buy a Redbook, could have looked up the value of silver dollars. Even knowing nothing about grading, he could have taken the very cheapest price in the entire book - and found that it was triple or quadruple the offer received!

 

There's no doubt that if I had parents or grandparents in such a situation, I hope someone would be kind enough to come to their aid, or treat them right. But we can't assume that every elderly couple in the world, or even most of them, are completely incapable of doing some minimal amount of research, can we?

 

I see two parties who both bear part of the blame for a transaction gone awry. Education was lacking for one party, and morals the other.

I agree with you James. I guess I just have a little heart for the elderly.

[pendragon1998]

There are lots of people putting coins on ebay that they don't know the value off and when we win it " We Got A Great Deal " and talk about it on this form.

"How many of us e-mail the seller and tell them they should have researched it first before putting it on ebay"

 

 

Ebay is a different situation: if it's an auction, then the seller will usually get a fair market value (less fees) for whatever's up for bidding, assuming they're somewhat smart about the listing. In a buy it now scenario, the responsibility is still with the seller, not the buyer, because the seller is advertising a sale price with no influence from the buyer.

[Oldtrader3]

I lived in a Retirement home for 2-1/2 years while recovering from a serious illness and I will tell you this. Many people in the Second World War generation have an expectation of being treated fairly when they approach a merchant. They do not expect to get a weasel who robs them just because they are not cognizant about the price of silver. Get real!

 

My wife does not know the price of silver or the worth of coins and would get skinned just like those two elderly people were treated by that weasel dealer. I also would bet that half the people on this board's spouses would not know the worth of coins and would get taken by this weasel the same way!

 

Don't pass this off as split responsibility. It is theft by deception by a weasel dealer to do this to elderly people. Any dealer who takes advantage of elderly people like that is truly in for a special surprise when they meet their maker!

[EZ_E]

Any dealer who takes advantage of elderly people like that is truly in for a special surprise when they meet their maker!

 

Let it be so.

[ant]

i delt with this before and i had to speek up. i have at least 3 times been asked to leave due to telling the seller "he/she is ripping you off and ill pay u the value" . you are awsome for even telling them they got took even if they could be mad at you. and outing the name of the store is a great start!

[WoodenJefferson]

13.59 spot silver

 

16 Morgan’s 12.375 troy oz.

 

Value: $168.18

Bid: $176.59

Ask: 159.77

 

30 Dimes 2.1702 troy oz.

 

Value: $29.49

Bid: $30.97

Ask: $28.02

 

$168.18

+$29.49

_______

$197.67 x 5% finders fee = $9.88 (which I think is bogus)

 

$187.78 potential bullion

-$81.00 sellers total

________

$106.78 dealers margin

 

Even with overhead costs, I would say that if he only paid the claimants $81.00 the dealer pocketed a major portion of these proceeds for a bullion only transaction.

 

What’s fair, 10% profit, 18% profit…20% profit, more…who’s to say, but taking advantage of a low-ball offer is somehow not ethical.

 

 

 

[gpnyc]

Remember Mark's thread about what constitutes a "rip?" Well, this is a good example....

[123cents]

Any dealer who takes advantage of elderly people like that is truly in for a special surprise when they meet their maker!

 

Let it be so.

 

 

 

I agree 100%.

[CHABSENTIA]

I have been in Myrtle Beach for the last week selling some BU washington quarters. I had visited a local coin shop while here and had picked out a few coins I was interested in to make offers on. I finalized my coin sales and went back to Worldwide Coin Shop today to see if we could do business with each other. I also had an 1853 W/A&Rays LSQ that I may have traded or sold as the case allowed. When I went in he was waiting on some folks(very small shop), so I stayed out of the way. An elderly couple(in their 80's) was waiting before me and had their hands full of Morgan $'s, maybe 20 or so to sell , along with some silver dimes. I waited my turn and could not help but overhear the transaction. The owner of the shop told them they were not worth much not being uncirculated and that silver was way down. I didn't take any real notice to the conversation until I came back around and overheard the final total of the sale----$81.xx. I could have fallen over, as I said before, at least 20 Morgans were in their hands plus mercury dimes(I didn't pay attention to how many, but maybe most of a roll). They just looked at each other with hurt expressions and signed the agreement and walked out.

The owner said, "Sorry, you had to wait", to which I answered "me too" and walked out. I had parked beside these folks and they were not even to their vehicle yet, when I got to mine. I started not to say anything but it was eating at me. I asked them, if they did not mind telling me, what he had paid them for their Morgans. The lady said, $5.50 less a fee. So, it turns out their was 16 Morgans and 30 some dimes that they got $80.xx for. I normally stay out of these issues, but I told them they had not been given a fair value for their silver and if they wished to go back in, I would go with them to plead their case. The man said, thank you, but the lady was insulted that I would speak of it and got in her car and slammed the door. The man nodded and got in his side and they left. I did not go back in and confront the dealer , but I now wish that I had. What do you think.

I will never go back in this shop again.

Jim

 

I doubt that this is the first time that the Dealer has made a similar.Since I was walking out anyway I would have said something.Something like "Silver by itself is $13.00 for each one".I disagree that they could have done Research on their own on a Computer. My Father passed away 3 years ago at 89.My Parents aew Wealthy. My Mother is well provided before. I went to Texas to help out.They had a Computer but it was used for receiving E Mail and following their Brokerage accounts.That was it. It was a problem as it was a 56K dial up Modem. My Brother tried to get them to go Cable/DSL so he could send pictures etc but they refused to do it.

 

I went to the Library and used their Computers but I had to go when there was no School as the kids would be there for Video games etc and you had a time limit of 45 minutes.My Parents could not understand how I could spend three hours on a Computer.It just wasn't their thing outside the above mentioned areas.

 

In the 1990s my Father gave me all the Proof sets in OGP from 1968 and all the Mint sets from 1970 because he knew I was interested in Coins and had started buying them from the U.S.Mint but he never would have sold them,

 

Of course he did not have to sell them By the actions outside I suspect that they needed the Money.. The woman seemed to be indifferent so my guess is that they needed the Money and she was not interested in them but knew they had some value,The Husband either had more at home or had picked some up for the Silver value for whatever reason and suspected they might be worth more money and was appreciative of your gesture but was resigned to it because the wife to;d him it was necessary.

 

I just dont see how $81.00 would made that much of a difference in the long run .My Great Aunt passed away about 5 years ago, There was 22 Peace Dollars that I got from her.She used to go to Las Vegas when they used them for the slots. They were probably about EF/AU and had been cleaned.U sent them to one of these people who buy coins and silver and recived over $300.00 Just don't see the $81.00.This was earlier this year.

[SeatedCoinage-migration]

This will sound very harsh, but I put the full blame on the elderly couple if they were in good mental health.

 

First, being old is no excuse for not knowing the value of your property. If anything, their should have used their years on earth to learn how to get something properly appraised, get second opinions, and so forth. Here they acted like a 5 year old spending his parent's coin collection on candy.

 

There are many things I am not an expert at valuing. If my grandparents left me an old dining room set, I would make sure I fully understand it's market value, it's condition, everything about it. I wouldn't necessarily need a computer to do this.

 

If I'm selling my car in the classifieds, I don't just make up a price. Same thing if I'm buying a car in the classifieds, I fully research everything.

 

If I'm 80 years old and still in good mental health, then I should have learned over the years to give a damn about what I'm doing before I do it.

 

Now these elderly people may have been living comfortably, and not even care if they were ripped of by hundreds of dollars. Old people have a shift in their values, and maybe they didn't care how much they got for the coins.

 

If these elderly people were not in good mental health, and seemed confused at the entire process, then that is a different story.

 

This is how the world works. If I purchase stock in GM, and I don't read all of their financial statements and be well informed of their current business environment, then I'm at fault, not GM or my broker.

 

How about the elderly folks take full responsibility for their carelessness.

[Mark T]

Back when Silver was around $ 17 an ounce local dealers in my area were offering nine times the face value for a silver coin. I wound up selling my bulk silver on E Bay for about 14 times the face value. Highly unlikely you will get a good price when you bring a coin into a dealer , they have to make a profit so they will attempt to get the coin for as cheap as possible. If they are not honest and know they are dealing with someone who is does not know the value of what they are selling they will take advantage of that.

 

 

[PerryHall]

This will sound very harsh, but I put the full blame on the elderly couple if they were in good mental health.

 

I've seen a lot of really stupid posts but this one takes the cake. How dare they assume the dealer is an honest professional rather than a slimey thief. Give me a freaking break.

[MarkFeld]

This will sound very harsh, but I put the full blame on the elderly couple if they were in good mental health.

 

First, being old is no excuse for not knowing the value of your property. If anything, their should have used their years on earth to learn how to get something properly appraised, get second opinions, and so forth. Here they acted like a 5 year old spending his parent's coin collection on candy.

 

There are many things I am not an expert at valuing. If my grandparents left me an old dining room set, I would make sure I fully understand it's market value, it's condition, everything about it. I wouldn't necessarily need a computer to do this.

 

If I'm selling my car in the classifieds, I don't just make up a price. Same thing if I'm buying a car in the classifieds, I fully research everything.

 

If I'm 80 years old and still in good mental health, then I should have learned over the years to give a damn about what I'm doing before I do it.

 

Now these elderly people may have been living comfortably, and not even care if they were ripped of by hundreds of dollars. Old people have a shift in their values, and maybe they didn't care how much they got for the coins.

 

If these elderly people were not in good mental health, and seemed confused at the entire process, then that is a different story.

 

This is how the world works. If I purchase stock in GM, and I don't read all of their financial statements and be well informed of their current business environment, then I'm at fault, not GM or my broker.

 

How about the elderly folks take full responsibility for their carelessness.

This might have had nothing to do with whether the sellers were elderly. You place "full blame" on the sellers, meaning you place none on the buyer. Would you feel the same way if he had paid them $1 each for the silver dollars? Or 10c each? Either way, I am saddened by your attitude and those of others who seem to feel that a buyer who takes advantage of a seller, is completely blameless.

[MikeInFL]

That makes two of us.

[WoodenJefferson]

This will sound very harsh, but I put the full blame on the elderly couple if they were in good mental health.

 

This is how the world works.

 

How about the elderly folks take full responsibility for their carelessness.

 

This is NOT how I was brought up...I was taught at a very young age to respect my elders and now that I am one, I fear for my future exsistance, especially with statements as such.

 

Myself being of sound mind, I do have Senior moments that scare the bejeezuz out of me once I realize what I did or said...it's something that you just have to experience to appreciate.

 

I'm no where near 80 years of age (yet) and can only begin to imagine the obstacles that lay ahead of me in my Golden Years