Did I make a mistake?New pics 8/21

[prudden]

Well,I just couldn't help myself. I was searching Ebay for Morgans as usual.DMPL's in particular when I came across a MS 65 1904 O DMPL with a buy it now of $150.00. WHAT?, you say,is that a typo.Did he mean $1500.00.Nope. One fifty. I've been wanting a nice 04-O for awhile,I just couldn't find one I really wanted. So, why the question about the mistake? The coin is in a SEGS slab.I know they aren't the greatest,but they aren't bottom feeders either,right? What do you guys thing about SEGS? There were 8 so-so pictures in the ad. I'll post one here.

[bsshog40]

I've never been real big on SEGS and will have to grade these best I can and ignore the grade on the slab. Your pic is a little small but this looks to be MS63-64 to me. Not down-grading the coin either Prudden. I love these DMPL Morgans and would love to have one. I still think it's a very nice looking Morgan. Would like to see the Rev. tho'.

[prudden]

I've never been real big on SEGS and will have to grade these best I can and ignore the grade on the slab. Your pic is a little small but this looks to be MS63-64 to me. Not down-grading the coin either Prudden. I love these DMPL Morgans and would love to have one. I still think it's a very nice looking Morgan. Would like to see the Rev. tho'.

 

Ask and ye shall receive. the pics weren't great to start with but here's the reverse.

[jgrinz]

Not a DMPL sorry - Typical of SEGS though

 

[MarkFeld]

Did you make a mistake? Quite possibly. Odds are pretty good that the coin won't grade 65 and/or DPL "elsewhere". If you can consistently determine whether Morgan Dollars are of MS65 quality and DPL from images, you have an extremely rare talent.

[prudden]

Thanks Mark,

Yes,most people seem to have a heck of a time with PL's and DMPL's.Even the professionals sometimes. I'll know better when I get it. I would accept a 64DMPL for the price,I think. Tell me something,if you know. Is contrast between the fields and devices a must for DMPL's?

And,by the way,I never buy something like this without the seller having a return policy. In this case it's 7 days.

[jgrinz]

I own about 70 Morgans and NOT one is PL/DMPL. Yes I agree that they are very atractive but they also command a price far exceeding what I would value the coin. So I dont buy them. I continuously buy a higher technical grade over Contrasts and that is how my whole morgan collection is ... feel free to look at it. Do not get caught in the trap of buying something just to return it thinking you may find the deal of deals - They are few and far between.

 

 

[prudden]

I usually buy common date PL's when I find them. DMPL's are a bit more difficult because no one seems to agree what constitutes a DMPL anymore. I've been hearing stories about DMPL regrades coming back mostly PL's .Even from the same company's slabs.

I admit,I do like bargains and you're right,it can get out of hand. The only time I've had to return a coin is when a seller used a "stolen" picture in their ad. Just happened recently and I posted pictures of the what I thought I was getting and what actually came.

[Oldtrader3]

It seems as though there never were more than anecdotal standards for much of the collector's market on what constitutes the difference between PL and DPL coins. IMHO, it is nearly impossble to pick DPL coins from most photos or scans. Be careful about buying DPL coins raw.

[rrantique]

Victor EZ-E provided a interesting post on This. (thumbs u

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2188520#Post2188520

[cpm9ball]

I've seen numerous SCD's (So-Called DMPL's) in SEGS slabs, and their standard for attributing DMPL's is very lax. I don't recommend buying any DMPL from photos if you don't know and trust the seller. Photos showing the reflections can be misleading because they do not readily show the depth of field. In some instances, what may seem like beautiful reflections in the mirrors (from a photo) is only a blur at 4" or more. I, too, learned the hard way not to trust photos and/or the expertise of the (unknown) seller.

 

I like DMPL's! Besides the beauty of the mirrors, I think it is kind of neat to have one of the first 500 or so Morgans that were struck from a die pair. I have 11 that are in ANACS, NGC and PCGS slabs, and I also have a dozen or more that are raw. All of the raw ones were purchased at shows on a sight-seen basis.

 

Some people don't care for DMPL's because distracting marks can really stand out in coins graded below MS65. I can understand why Mike (jgrinz) doesn't have any. He's so picky! Then again, that just leaves more for me.

 

Chris

 

 

[BillJones]

I have seen some decent coins in SEGS holders, but you have to pick your shots, and you can’t take their word for it. You have know how grade just as if it is a raw coin.

 

One coin I remember was an 1866 Shield nickel that a large, still hanging lamination on the obverse. SEGS graded the coin MS-64, and it was at least that grade excluding whatever points you might have discounted in market value for the mint caused problem. The coin was interesting because it was a great illustration of the problems that the 19th century mint had with producing these coins that were made of “the devil’s copper.” I was tempted to buy it, but the price was still around $500 so I passed. And of course it was type of coin that neither NGC nor PCGS would have graded.

 

Another SEGS coin that really caught my eye was an 1848-C quarter eagle that was in an MS-63 holder. The piece was just a wonderful little coin, and I was sorely tempted. I had it on consignment from a dealer and ultimately sold it to another dealer for a little over $5,000.

 

Ironically the dealer from whom I had the piece consigned also had another 1848-C quarter eagle in an NGC MS-63 holder. The price on that one was $20,000. When you put the two coins side by side, it was hard to spot a difference. Finally after a lot of looking with a 10X glass I found it. If you put the SEGS coin at a very specific angle under the light there was a very small patch of hairlines on the obverse. It didn’t amount to much, and given that it was in the MS-63 grade, it didn’t bother me at all, but I guess that was enough to get the piece into the dreaded “third world holder.”

 

[prudden]

Thanks guys,

Bill,I don't think I would be able to spot something like that. Guess I ought to stay away from certain coins and slabs until I can. I guess I can take this SEGS DMPL down to a coin shop in Sarasota and have someone look it over. It's a mine field out there,I tell ya'.

[James_OldeTowne]

The coin is in a SEGS slab.I know they aren't the greatest,but they aren't bottom feeders either,right? What do you guys thing about SEGS?

In the past, I have been as kind as possible regarding SEGS. But I had an issue this weekend at the coin show which may have caused me to lose every last vestige of respect. A gentleman whom I have seen at coin shows from time to time sat down to discuss a purchase he made five years ago of a rare early gold coin that SEGS called AU-55 (straight grade, no comments). The only problem is that the coin has only XF details, was severely polished and had several prominent scratches on the reverse. Instead of paying $14,000 for the coin, it should have been $3500!

 

And guess what? This is but a single example of several such purchases. I am learning more about the situation, and am not kidding when I say that I suggest my customer sue SEGS AND the dealer who sold him this junk.

 

So in short, SEGS has recently come off my list of passable grading services. I will no longer refrain from telling how I feel about them.

 

And by the way, I happen to like Larry Briggs personally.

[Mark T]

http://www.pngdealers.com/category.php?category_id=4

 

SEGS is listed as poor. Most of the stuff I have seen on line in a SEGS holder was not properly graded. Major Auction Houses do not sell coins Slabbed by SEGS.

I would only buy a DMPL slabbed by NGC or PCGS .

[BankNote1]

Thanks guys,

Bill,I don't think I would be able to spot something like that. Guess I ought to stay away from certain coins and slabs until I can. I guess I can take this SEGS DMPL down to a coin shop in Sarasota and have someone look it over. It's a mine field out there,I tell ya'.

 

I don't see why you would need to show it to anyone after this thread. When you get the Morgan just put it back in the mail for your refund. If it sounds to good to be true it probably is! If that seller thought that coin had any hope what-so-ever to be DMPL he would have the coin in a PCGS or NGC holder.

 

If I was looking for a nice DPL/DMPL I would buy one graded by PCGS or NGC!

 

I hate SEGS holders anyway because they are so hard to crack open!

[prudden]

The coin came today.I took my own pictures. It's really not bad,but I don't think it's a DMPL and I'm not too sure of the grade. It's definitely a decent looking Proof-like Morgan.

Pictures aren't the best.I hope they give a good idea though. Thanks for looking. Darn huge pictures again.I think they exaggerate defects badly. I posted them at 800x600.They look bigger.

 

[bsshog40]

Well what I see is a nice Morgan that may grade PL but also may grade MS61-62. It looks to have quite abit of contact marks unless they're on his plastic. I'll have to be honest, but I think if it was me, I'd get money back.

[prudden]

Well what I see is a nice Morgan that may grade PL but also may grade MS61-62. It looks to have quite abit of contact marks unless they're on his plastic. I'll have to be honest, but I think if it was me, I'd get money back.

 

It's not as bad as the pics make it our to be. Certainly not a 65 that SEGS gave it. But I think it hovers between 63-64. It isn't worth what I paid for it. This is a further perspective.

 

[jgrinz]

Well you know what - I like it ... To Find a decent specimen made from the New Orlean Mint with Breast feathers is a keeper to me.

Might squeek in with a 62PL

 

My Adjusted pictures below -

 

[cpm9ball]

I think it will make 63.

 

Chris

[jgrinz]

I think it will make 63.

 

Chris

 

I do not think so Chris as there is too much around the ear area as seen below

 

[prudden]

Thanks guys,

I had already decided to return it or maybe even get a partial refund.Not sure what it's worth,not much i suppose. Igriz is right,there is too many small hits by the ear and hairline.I reduce my grade to 63.I have a 62 PL that was graded recently by NGC.This one is a bit better. The fields aren't that great either.The reverse in very nice though. Doesn't come close the the 81S 65 PL I posted the other day.

[bsshog40]

I think that may be a good decision. It would be different if you paid 63 money for it because it is a nice morgan at that grade. I just think for your $150, you can get a better specimen.

[prudden]

I think that may be a good decision. It would be different if you paid 63 money for it because it is a nice morgan at that grade. I just think for your $150, you can get a better specimen.

 

 

I've been in touch with the seller.Seems like an okay guy. I asked to either return it for a refund or if he was interested in a partial refund allowing me to keep it. He just said to send it back for a full refund.No problem. No answer to my offer for a partial refund.

I probably would have offered him $75.00. I very much doubt he would have accepted offer.

Back it goes.

[braddick]

I think that may be a good decision. It would be different if you paid 63 money for it because it is a nice morgan at that grade. I just think for your $150, you can get a better specimen.

 

 

I've been in touch with the seller.Seems like an okay guy. I asked to either return it for a refund or if he was interested in a partial refund allowing me to keep it. He just said to send it back for a full refund.No problem. No answer to my offer for a partial refund.

I probably would have offered him $75.00. I very much doubt he would have accepted offer.

Back it goes.

It's always fun to gamble when there is no risk involved. You wanted to purchase a $1,500.00 coin for ten cents on the dollar. When you discovered it is worth only five cents on the dollar, back it goes!

No muss. No fuss. Now, if only Las Vegas would work that way. Spin the slot wheels and if I don't win, tap a refund button and off I go.

[cpm9ball]

Now, if only Las Vegas would work that way. Spin the slot wheels and if I don't win, tap a refund button and off I go.

 

Well, almost! On my trips to Vegas, I normally stay for 10-12 days. My airfare, room and meals are free. I get limo service to and from the airport. When I leave, I get cash back for the points I've accumulated on my club card. About 95% of my play is on 1c multiline video slots.

 

Heck, I can even invite Victor, Hannah and her girlfriends to lunch, and Victor pays for it.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

Maybe it's just the images, and/or even original haze, but I wonder if Liberty's cheek has been artificially frosted?

[braddick]

Maybe it's just the images, and/or even original haze, but I wonder if Liberty's cheek has been artificially frosted?

 

We can only hope that is the best case scenerio. Can you imagine the worse?