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So, what is a "rip"?

Started by MarkFeld,

78 posts in this topic

World Colonial

World Colonial

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Posted

By the definition of many on this post, I must be ripping sellers off many times on some of my coins because I frequently buy my coins and turn around and sell them for more or a lot more immediately. Now one difference is that when I buy them, the coin is raw and then I have it graded which is why I am able to sell it for more or a lot more. I could not do so if I tried to sell a raw coin raw or just resold a graded coin.

 

The level of risk that I am taking varies based upon the price I pay and the probability that the coin will be rejected for certification by NGC (since that is where all my coins go). When this does happen (and it does occasionally), then whether I intend to sell or keep it, I end up incurring a substantial (proportionate) loss.

 

Most of the coins that I am buying in this scenario are either from eBay or from a few dealers I know. With the dealers, one of them is a specailist in this field and chooses to sell the coins for Krause prices though I do not know why. They could easily get them graded and sell them on eBay just like I do.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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By the definition of many on this post, I must be ripping sellers off many times on some of my coins because I frequently buy my coins and turn around and sell them for more or a lot more immediately. Now one difference is that when I buy them, the coin is raw and then I have it graded which is why I am able to sell it for more or a lot more. I could not do so if I tried to sell a raw coin raw or just resold a graded coin.

 

The level of risk that I am taking varies based upon the price I pay and the probability that the coin will be rejected for certification by NGC (since that is where all my coins go). When this does happen (and it does occasionally), then whether I intend to sell or keep it, I end up incurring a substantial (proportionate) loss.

 

Most of the coins that I am buying in this scenario are either from eBay or from a few dealers I know. With the dealers, one of them is a specailist in this field and chooses to sell the coins for Krause prices though I do not know why. They could easily get them graded and sell them on eBay just like I do.

A coin "rip" is not necessarily the same thing as "ripping of"' a seller.
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jesbroken

jesbroken

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Mark, I now see your point. Your use of the term 'rip' was far more esoteric than I imagined. I felt you were defining it as used concurrent with the term 'rip off'. You were merely stating a rip has occurred whenever a larger than normal value disparity has occurred during a coin sale/transaction in which intent plays no part-only the value diparity. Sorry, for being so obtuse in this matter. doh!

Jim

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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I offered a Five Zlotych Polish coin on ebay. The catalog value listed it at $65 in XF. I put that in my listing. Immediately, I was made an offer to buy the coin outright for $65. I didn't accept it. Now, the coin is $100 beyond that price. The peckerwood tried to rip me but I didn't bite.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Mark, I now see your point. Your use of the term 'rip' was far more esoteric than I imagined. I felt you were defining it as used concurrent with the term 'rip off'. You were merely stating a rip has occurred whenever a larger than normal value disparity has occurred during a coin sale/transaction in which intent plays no part-only the value diparity. Sorry, for being so obtuse in this matter.
Jim, please don't apologize. Others have posted their disagreement with me on this topic as well, and apparently I could/should have been clearer from the outset.
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MikeInFL

MikeInFL

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 Quote:
has to take place quickly to be a rip otherwise all the coins I bought in the 50's when I sell them for a good profit does that make me a rip artist
No, if at the time of the transaction the coins are worth substantially more than the price paid, it's a rip. It doesn't matter if the coins are re-sold quickly, or for that matter, ever.

 

Although I should be working now, I can't help but ask:

 

Would you please define "substantially"?

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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 Originally Posted By: coinman1794
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header"> Originally Posted By: MarkFeld</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header"> Originally Posted By: just-john</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think it comes down to intent by the seller or the buyer =the state of a person's mind that directs his or her actions toward a specific object. If there was no intent to swindle, cheat, or exploit; take advantage of.Then it/s not a RIP </div></div>If I unknowingly buy a $1000 coin for $10, it's most assuredly a rip. Intent has nothing to do with it - it's about the difference in value between the selling price and what the coin is "worth". </div></div><br /><br />I disagree. It depends on the knowledge of the parties doing the buying and selling. If both parties are casual collectors with limited knowledge, then it's perfectly acceptable to get $10 for that coin, if both think thats reasonable. However, if one of the parties (let's say the buyer), is an advanced numismatist or a dealer who not only should have a better sense of the real value, but also has access to the proper channels to find out exactly what the value is, then $10 is a rip, even if the buyer thougth it was a $10 coin. The buyer had the means but simply chose not to do enough research. Whereas, if the buyer had no clue about coin pricing, grading, etc, and thought $10 was a good price, then it's a perfectly honest transaction.<br /><br />Obviously this is a hypathetical over-simplification and exceptions will exist. However, I think that the frames of reference of the two parties involved play an intrical role in determining if it was a rip or not. I don't see this concept as a measure of "intent," so on that matter we can agree.
The relative knowledge of the parties doesn't have anything to do with whether a "rip" has occurred. In certain instances, knowledge might make a "rip" unethical, as opposed to perfectly fine, however. I think you're equating "rip" with "rip off" and they aren't the same. ;\)

 

Well I'm glad none of us are splitting hairs here! :makepoint:

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Although I should be working now, I can't help but ask:

 

Would you please define "substantially"?

Mike, get to work. :grin: I already mentioned somewhere in this thread that "The use of the word "substantial" is part of why the term/definition is ambiguous" ;)
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jgrinz

jgrinz

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I purchased a 1897-p Morgan Dollar off a stupid ebay seller listing the coin a PGCS MS66 when in fact it was a PCGS coin. I paid $485 for the coin 6 months ago. It still resides in my collection BUT if I sell it for PCGS money I probably could get a comparable coin in an NGC holder and pocket some cash ...

Is this a rip ???

 

I am all confused now hehehhehe ^^

 

 

63989.jpg.edf0e0a081f5ce517725514cbc7fb4bb.jpg

63990.jpg.6f4f29421762f1b25a8285cd5b221c86.jpg

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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I purchased a 1897-p Morgan Dollar off a stupid ebay seller listing the coin a PGCS MS66 when in fact it was a PCGS coin. I paid $485 for the coin 6 months ago. It still resides in my collection BUT if I sell it for PCGS money I probably could get a comparable coin in an NGC holder and pocket some cash ...

Is this a rip ???

 

I am all confused now hehehhehe

He was "stupid" listing a PCGS coin as PCGS MS66?
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okbustchaser

okbustchaser

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He listed it as PGCS rather than PCGS. This threw off the ebay search engines and limited the number of viewers. Even the people who didn't search by keyword PCGS possibly were loath to bid on a PGCS graded coin.

 

Not necessarily "stupid"--most likely was a typo--but, extremely unlucky.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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He listed it as PGCS rather than PCGS. This threw off the ebay search engines and limited the number of viewers. Even the people who didn't search by keyword PCGS possibly were loath to bid on a PGCS graded coin.

 

Not necessarily "stupid"--most likely was a typo--but, extremely unlucky.

Thanks. I suppose that if the seller was stupid for making that mistake, I am equally stupid for having missed it. :cry: However, I hope that if I ever make such a listing error, a buyer who profits from it won't refer to me as stupid.
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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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I purchased a 1897-p Morgan Dollar off a stupid ebay seller listing the coin a PGCS MS66 when in fact it was a PCGS coin. I paid $485 for the coin 6 months ago. It still resides in my collection BUT if I sell it for PCGS money I probably could get a comparable coin in an NGC holder and pocket some cash ...

Is this a rip ???

 

I am all confused now hehehhehe \^\^

 

 

Mike, PGCS is notorious for self-slabbing doctored coins. I'll give you melt value for it. lolChris
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