I'm done with buying from dealers that don't use photos

[Prethen]

I'm completely disgusted with my last buying experience. This dealer is one who I know wouldn't deliberately try to put one over on me, but he did realize how picky I was. For the second time in a row, I had to send the coin back for a refund. I don't have the stomach or wallet (shipping!!!) for taking another chance.

 

Many of you probably have fantastic experiences buying sight unseen from various dealers. I think the only dealer off hand that I could trust that implicitly would be Mark Feld. I thought I could trust this other dealer, but he simply won't spend the extra few moments to really examine a coin to see if it has any problems or really has the eye appeal that I've discussed with him that I look for. Yes, eye appeal is all about the holder of the coin (me), but there are certain levels of eye appeal which should be relatively obvious.

 

The first coin was a seated dollar that was a nice original XF, but it was just a bit too beat up to be desirable. I can't find those pictures so I can't show them here. I did happen to scan the coin and send them off to a forum member here and he completely agreed with my assessment. The hits on the coin were too distracting. So, back it went. This is something I would think a dealer who supposedly knows me would realize that I just might have a problem with those hits. At least mention it to me!

 

The second coin was an 1872 2¢ that had what I believed to be an altered reverse. The obverse had zero dirt on it, but the reverse looks like a layer of muck was added to it....literally! Wasn't this like a major red flag to the dealer?! There were partial, dirty finger prints all over the devices on the reverse indicating that there was a strong chance the dirt was applied which further indicates that it was done to hide problems. This coin was a virtual lock-in to get a body bag if ever sent into a grading service and also very difficult to sell for anyone careful enough to review the reverse.

 

I also realize that some of you may feel that if I'm going to be that picky, mail order dealers aren't for me. Sigh. Yep, I guess you're right.

 

I'm just tired of spending $15-$20++ on shipping charges back on forth on coins that I find are not worth owning from dealers that won't image the coins.

[PerryHall]

Sounds like you are a picky collector. You may be better off buying in person at coin shows.

[Prethen]

Perry...I'm DAMN picky. Unfortunately, there's only one real quality show anywhere near here a year (Colorado Springs summer show). The other shows usually have the same old material that gets recycled from dealer to dealer. Therefore, I'm forced to count on looking into dealers with decent pictures and allow me to ask questions about the coin and give me frank answers. Too few dealers have the patience to look at their coins for more than a few moments, if at all.

[MarkFeld]

Bruce, I'll have to take issue with yor thread title, even though you did say something very nice about me, for which I thank you It doesn't sound as if your problem has to do with dealers who don't post images (which we know have severe limitations anyway). It's that the dealers don't know or care what you're really looking for. Don't confuse the (real) issue.

[James_OldeTowne]

Photos have significant limitations. It's amazing how different a coin can look even from a good quality digital image. I agree with Mark that the problem isn't how dealers are "pre-screening" coins for you, but rather that you are simply better off only ever buying a coin after you have physically inspected it.

 

I hate to say it, but if you are far from coin outlets, then you must consider reducing the frequency with which you buy coins, and save up for those fewer but bigger shopping sprees.

[MarkFeld]

....I agree with Mark that the problem isn't how dealers are "pre-screening" coins for you, but rather that you are simply better off only ever buying a coin after you have physically inspected it.....

James, actually I think part of the problem probably IS how dealers are pre-screening coins for Bruce. The images (or lack thereof) isn't the problem, however.

[cpm9ball]

This is just a suggestion, but you might time your inquiries to the dealers in your area (is Denver too far to include?) to the period just after a major show like FUN or any of the ANA shows outside of Colorado. If any of your local dealers are attending, they would be likely to bring home new material.

 

It is possible that you could call on them at just the right moment when they have reviewed the cost of their purchases and their travel expenses, and are in need of some fast cash.

 

Chris

[jesbroken]

Whether the issue is lack of pics or not, it amazes me that there are coin dealers that will not provide pics upon request. I have never been refused a photo of a coin that I requested from any dealers. I know on Collectors Corner there are many dealers that do not care to take the time to photo coins(amazingly, even $200-400 coins). I think they lose a lot of sales as it may take a week to get a photo you request, but that is their issue. I have never bought a coin without even a pic, although several people on this forum I would trust if the occasion arose. One already named and many more. I would probably pee my pants awaiting on a coin from James or Mark that I had not seen, but I would never doubt its quality or acceptability. But I feel sure any on this forum would provide me with a photo upon request. HJB and Teaparty have always sent me photos(in fact waiting on a couple now due to the recent show). I realize one cannot trustfully grade a coin from a pic, but should be able to see major tics and dirt or other mean tricks to some extent.

I know exactly where you are coming from, Bruce, as here in Southern West Virginia we don't exactly have a plethora of shows(if any) to select from, so mail purchases seem to be the norm.

You should be picky-its your money and hopefully soon to enter your collection.

Good luck.

Jim

[Dcoin]

Prethen- I have struggled with this issue as of late. I have been looking for a 5C 13s t2 for over two years now. I can count on one hand how many examples I have seen at the local shows. So I ask, do I buy sight unseen?

 

Your braver than me, I just can't bring myself to trust enough on a description. So, I continue to hunt.

 

Feeling your frustration bro.

 

[farthing]

No problems here buying without photos. I've never had an issue with mail bid auctions either. Charmed life I suppose but it may also have something to do with the type of material I collect and the dealers I buy from.

[michael]

Photos have significant limitations. It's amazing how different a coin can look even from a good quality digital image. I agree with Mark that the problem isn't how dealers are "pre-screening" coins for you, but rather that you are simply better off only ever buying a coin after you have physically inspected it.

 

I hate to say it, but if you are far from coin outlets, then you must consider reducing the frequency with which you buy coins, and save up for those fewer but bigger shopping sprees.

 

(thumbs u

 

bruce you got to save up and go to a show or two a year and yes this has expense much more than return postage expense

 

i guess it is an opportunity cost

 

you got to have at least a scan and then a physical description of the coin then send it to youand then again you might return 50% but at least it is cheaper than going to one or two major shows a year to go looking for items

 

sorry to say and i know it is extremely frustrating and i am sure many times over collectors have been thruogh this as you have

 

basically you are probably not going to be net good pricing on good coins through the mail....you either got to pay monster prices by mail for killer coins or save up and go twice a year? toa major show to go looking and hopefully buying sight seen

[michael]

quote

 

I know exactly where you are coming from, Bruce, as here in Southern West Virginia we don't exactly have a plethora of shows(if any) to select from, so mail purchases seem to be the norm.

You should be picky-its your money and hopefully soon to enter your collection.

Good luck.

Jim

 

quote

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u

[realone]

I wish the FEW old timer dealers that don't have pics read this thread, lets add to the heap the cheapo dealers that have lousy pics too. A dealer that I won't mention when contacted by me to have him send a pic, would only send me a pic of the obv, when I asked what happened to the rev he told me to stop bothering him. Obviously these dealers have some sort of issue, whether they really don't want to sell their coins or are slow to move into the 21st Century, either way they need to "ch ch change".

[MikeInFL]

I have tried, a few times, to have coins sent on a dealer's recommendation. Each and every coin was returned. Now I won't even consider a coin unless a photo is available for review....Mike

 

p.s. Mark is my favorite coin dealer -- I trust him implicitly -- and I've purchased a significant percentage of my collection from him, but I don't order coins from even him either without a photo -- and it has nothing at all to do with trust, but rather because I'm both picky and fickle.

[okbustchaser]

A vote for the other side...

 

I really couldn't care less if some dealer posts a carefully manipulated photo of a coin--and most, if not all, dealer pics are manipulated to show the coin in the best light. Fine, that's the dealer's job--to sell coins.

 

On the other hand, a dealer who over the years has taken the time to listen and learn what type of coin I am interested in doesn't need to post a pic. His verbal description means a heck of a lot more to me than even the best picture. Does than mean that I would never send back a coin from him? Of course not--but, I AM more likely to be satisfied with that coin then I am a coin I bought from someone else based on a picture posted on some internet site.

 

Edit for bad typing--not bad spelling

[Prethen]

I guess the next worse thing is when a dealer does provide photos but they're too small to really make an informed decision. By the way, I disagree with any rants about the possibility of the dealer doctoring photos. Once I would discover something like that, I cross that dealer off the list and possibly think of reporting him.

 

There's one dealer in particular that posts what I would say are medium sized pictures. They're big enough to get you interested, but the photos are rather flat looking, so they're possibly just scans. When I've asked in the past about the size, he stated something like that's the best he can do. What a CROC! Fortunately, for this particular situation, he's local enough that I can meet with him and see the coin(s) personally but it's still a hassle.

 

Even before I got my DSLR and macro set up, I could still either take halfway decent photos with a crummy point and shoot digital or do scans and everything at a decent size. It ain't that hard even with sub-par equipment.

[realone]

A vote for the other side...

 

I really couldn't care less if some dealer posts a carefully manipulated photo of a coin--and most, if not all, dealer pics are manipulated to show the coin in the best light. Fine, that's the dealer's job--to sell coins.

 

On the other hand, a dealer who over the years has taken the time to listen and learn what type of coin I am interested in doesn't need to post a pic. His verbal discription means a heck of a lot more to me than even the best picture. Does than mean that I would never send back a coin from him? Of course not--but, I AM more likely to be satisfied with that coin then I am a coin I bought from someone else based on a picture posted on some internet site.

 

I also agree with Bustchaser, he brings up a great point that I neglected to mention. Absolutley true, if a dealer I trust to have a great eye tells me over the phone a great description of a coin I will buy it on approval instantly no problem. And if Mark Feld called me on such a coin I would buy it immediately.