Two Fold Question - 2008 Gold Buffalos

[jgrinz]

1 - Are you going ot collect the new Fractional Buffalo's and If so WHY ??

 

I for one am Not giving into the US MINT hype - Give me BIG FAT 1 Ounce Gold Pieces - BUT THE ST Gaudens HIGH relief Re-release I am already saving for

 

2- This Year the 2008 Proof Buffalo ( Issued separately AND with the Fractionals as a set ) seems to be price way higher this year than last for a Proof 70 Specimen. Do you think this has to do with the release of fractionals at the same time or strictly gold price increase

 

I would have liked to have seen the release of the OUNCE version first then in 6 months or so the fractionals to see what the prcing would have then ...

 

Thoughts ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

I'm not a gold collector, but I have ordered the 1/10oz. Buffalo. I like it because it is so close to the size of the original nickel. I don't have any opinions about the rest of them.

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

I will most definitely buy the high relief and the solar 1 0z gold coin when it is released with the 9 NASA commems. And I may get the 1/10 oz Buffalo for the reasons that Chris stated.

[G-Myth]

I'm not a gold collector, but I have ordered the 1/10oz. Buffalo. I like it because it is so close to the size of the original nickel. I don't have any opinions about the rest of them.

 

I believe the 1/4 oz is the one your looking for if its the size you want to match.

[jackson64]

I'm not a gold collector, but I have ordered the 1/10oz. Buffalo. I like it because it is so close to the size of the original nickel. I don't have any opinions about the rest of them.

 

Chris

my thoughts exactly Chris (thumbs u

[Conder101]

It is the 1/4 oz that is the size of the five cent piece, not the 1/10 oz. The 1/10 oz is closer to the size of a dime.

[rrantique]

This is the one that I ordered.

[cpm9ball]

It is the 1/4 oz that is the size of the five cent piece, not the 1/10 oz. The 1/10 oz is closer to the size of a dime.

 

I called the Mint to check, and you're right and I'm wrong. The 1/4th oz. is .866" and the 1/10th oz. is .650". Sorry about that! I took it for granted that it would be about the same size as another $5 gold coin, but it's not.

 

So, I'll just cancel my order for the 1/10th oz. and get the 1/4th oz. instead.

 

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

 

Chris

[Oldtrader3]

I ordered one of the 1/10 ounce business strike Buffalo gold just to have one. I am not going to collect them though.

[zrlevin]

My grandfather ordered me one for my birthday in a couple of months, but he won't tell me anything about it.

 

I don't know the size...I don't even know if it is proof or unc.

[BillJones]

I'm attracted to the four piece set, but at more than $2 grand, I’m not sure that I would like to have money tied up in a purchase of gold at almost $1,200 an ounce.

[DC Dawg]

1 - Are you going ot collect the new Fractional Buffalo's and If so WHY ??

No. I have the 2006 and 2007 one ounce proof and will continue the collection in once ounce coins.

 

2- This Year the 2008 Proof Buffalo ( Issued separately AND with the Fractionals as a set ) seems to be price way higher this year than last for a Proof 70 Specimen. Do you think this has to do with the release of fractionals at the same time or strictly gold price increase

It's a combination of the price of gold and probably using the seignorage to make up for losses in other areas--like the losses from striking cents. Even if they are blaming the price of gold, the premiums were high based on the day they announced the prices.

 

Three weeks ago, the prices were set when gold closed around $975. As I type this, the spot price was just under $875. I did the calculations when the price was $975 and wrote about them here. Then the premium was 23.06%. Today that premium comes out to 27.09%

 

If the price of gold continues to drop, the Mint will have to drop the price of the coins. I will wait to see what they do before I buy at over 27% over spot!

 

Scott

[jman425]

Is the mint just out of fresh ideas that we have to see old classic patterns being recycled ? Don't get me wrong... I love the original Walking Liberty design and the St Gauden double Eagle, but copycat designs will never be as good as the original. The original buff nickels were better looking than these gold bullions.

What's next ? Flowing Hair bullion coins or Fugio dollars ?

[jackson64]

I believe they have recycled the Flowing Hair already on one of the first spouse gold coins....

[DC Dawg]

Is the mint just out of fresh ideas that we have to see old classic patterns being recycled ? Don't get me wrong... I love the original Walking Liberty design and the St Gauden double Eagle, but copycat designs will never be as good as the original. The original buff nickels were better looking than these gold bullions.

What's next ? Flowing Hair bullion coins or Fugio dollars ?

Ok... someone just poked my pet peeve.

 

The MINT does NOT come up with coin designs!

 

The designs are prescribed to them BY LAW passed by congress and signed by the president. After the law is passed, the Mint creates drafts of the prescribed design that is then vetted by the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee and the Commission of Fine Arts before the design can be struck as a coin.

 

For more about the process, read my essay "Sausage Making and Coin Production." I go through the gory details without going into the weeds. Go ahead... read it... and understand that the Mint has no control over the designs.

 

BTW: Just so you know, the final design that was coined in 1908 was not the original Saint Gaudens design. The original Saint Gaudens design was a high relief coin that very few survived. Since Augustus Saint Gaudens had died while the Mint were making the trial strikes, Chief Engraver Charles Barber eventually engraved lower dies based on Saint Gaudens design.

 

The ultra high relief coin the Mint will be producing for next year is based on a trial strike tried in 1907 when the Mint tried striking the coin using two eagle ($10) planchets staked on top of one another. Reportedly, all examples of that trial strike were melted.

 

Finally, although James Earl Fraser designed the Buffalo Nickel he did not do the engraving. I forgot which Mint engraver did the actual engraving of the Fraser design. Personally, I think John Mercanti did an excellent job engraving Fraser's design for the Buffalo gold coin.

 

Scott

[Conder101]

I'd have to disagree. The law typically specifies a general design ie: a representation of Liberty, Sacagawea, a bust of each of the Presidents etc and it directs which legends are required. The Mint then takes those guidelines and THEY come up with a series of designs that meet the specifications. Yes they are then submitted to the CCAC and CFA for their comments and suggestions, and usually the mint will try an incorperate some or all of those suggestions and the designs are sent to the Secretary of the Treasury who chooses which of the designs THAT THE MINT CAME UP WITH will be used.

 

As to the 1907 trial strike it was a planchet the diameter of an eagle but twice as thick, not two stacked eagle planchets. And 15 of them were struck with seven being sold to officials but apparently later recovered because the records show that 13 were melted and the last two are supposedly in the Smithsonian. (RWB Renaissance of American Coinage 1905 - 1908)

 

And Fraser did do the engraving for the Buffalo nickel not the mint. He created the models and then had the reduction to hubs done at Medallic Art Co in New York. (RWB Renaissance of American Coinage 1909 - 1915 p194 & p196) Mercanti did an excellent job of reproducing the Fraser design for the gold buffalos, but whoever did it for the 2001 silver dollar did a poor job of it.

[Houston Investor]

I like the 1/4 oz pieces but not the USM price.

[DC Dawg]

I'd have to disagree. The law typically specifies a general design ie: a representation of Liberty, Sacagawea, a bust of each of the Presidents etc and it directs which legends are required. The Mint then takes those guidelines and THEY come up with a series of designs that meet the specifications. Yes they are then submitted to the CCAC and CFA for their comments and suggestions, and usually the mint will try an incorperate some or all of those suggestions and the designs are sent to the Secretary of the Treasury who chooses which of the designs THAT THE MINT CAME UP WITH will be used.

That's the point... it was written in the law to use the Type 1 Buffaloes, the Walking Liberty obverse, and the Saint Gaudens obverse. That is prescribed BY LAW!

 

In other commemoratives, the Mint's hands are so tied that the rarely come up with more than one design. Look at the 2005 Marine Corps 230th Anniversary coin. Even though it won 2007 Coin of the Year, the law was written that said to have National Marine Memorial (Iwo Jima) on the obverse and the Marine emblem on the reverse. What else could the Mint do?

 

The Mint rarely has the freedom they had with the recent Native American Reverse design.

 

As for the vetting process, very few of the designs the Mint comes up with based on the requirements of the law gets through the CCAC and CFA unscathed. I have been looking into this (and I admit my research is incomplete), but the only time the Secretary of the Treasury selected a design that was not recommended by the CFA (pre CCAC era) was when Andrew Mellon selected the John Flanagan design over the Laura Gardin Fraser design for the Washington Quarter. I have not looked at the statistics in the post CCAC era, yet.

 

Scott