The book "Numismatic Forgery" an overview

[stinkycheese1]

I just finished reading a book (finally!) called Numismatic Forgery by Charles M. Larson. I'll try to explain the book and some of the stuff in it, at least, that I can remember. It is very in depth and I've forgotten alot of what I read. That's the problem with books I read, I forget most everyhing I learn from them.

 

The book is written almost as a "How to" guide to how counterfeiters and forgers fake coins. Certainly this can't be good for the to-be forger, but the author withhelds some information to make this more difficult, and assumes the reader is reading for educational purposes ONLY and it has a disclaimer.

 

The book talks about explosive impact copying, to make coins, which uses a shotgun!

 

The introduction of the book talks about how a forger can make fake gold coins, from a very well worn $20 gold piece, thus having the right alloy and fineness to make more numismatic coins , such making 20 gold $1 coins from it.

 

The book talks about planchets and how a forger can simply buy planchet errors to strike coins with, having the right metals in it already.

 

The book talks about differential shrinkage, which is where a coin loses part of its diameter when casting a coin. This isn't a problem for ancients, as they are more gobular but is a problem with modern coinage.

 

It talks about several terms of numismatics such as the term used for the scrap metal that you get when you punch out blanks that is leftover.

 

It's very techncial howeve,r and was very hard for me to understand.

 

But if you have good knowledge of metallurogy, I recommend this book.

 

Hope this helps

 

[EZ_E]

Kevin, you covered enough points to make me want to read the book. Thanks for the info. (thumbs u

[MikeInFL]

Thanks for the review Kevin! I learned something from reading it (the part about using worn speciments to make smaller denominations), and appreciate you taking the time to write it up....Mike

 

p.s. the good thing about buying books is that they're always available to consult -- like you, my memory isn't the best either.

[stinkycheese1]

Kevin, you covered enough points to make me want to read the book. Thanks for the info. (thumbs u

 

You guys are too kind, really. I just spent a few minutes typing it up and I should've sat down longer and made a better post, as I had the book in front of me.

 

It's a very interesting read though and if you want to get into great detail of all aspects of how counterfeiters make their coins, to the minting processes work, to how they choose the right planchets, to how they anneal the planchets, and also how they put wear and patina on the coins, it covers everything. I'll try and edit the post tommorrow and make it more comprehensiable.

 

I bought mine for $14. Can't beat that!

 

 

[lehigh96]

Kevin,

 

I actually have a degree in Metallurgy, and I can complete relate to your problem. I couldn't understand or remember half of what I read in my metallurgical studies. I guess that explains why over 10 years later, I run a hotel.

 

I am almost afraid to buy the book, if I don't understand it, I wasted a lot of money going to college.

 

Take care, Paul

[EZ_E]

That's funny, Paul. I hope you didn't waste your money, either.

 

I study metallurgy in nuclear power school in the Navy and remember that I enjoyed the subject but about all I remember from it is "tensile strength". :þ

 

Kevin, where did you pick the book up at?

[EZ_E]

OK, cool, I just purchased the only one on ebay for $17.95 with the shipping.

 

Thanks again for the heads up, Kevin. (thumbs u

[Arizonadesertrat]

This book is a great read. There is an ANA DVD (ANA04-29) that features a talk by Charles Larson on a related subject: "Numismatic Forgery--Mark Hofmann and Me". This is worth getting as well.

[Conder101]

I have that but haven't watched it yet.

 

I enjoyed Numismatic Forgery. There wasn't a lot in it that I didn't already know (but I've been at this a long time.) but the clear presentation and explanations made it an interesting read, and the information it does contain is something every collector should be aware of.

 

I think Kevin exaggerates a little when he implies you would need a good knowledge of metallurgy for this book. I think most everyone here would be able to understand a good deal of it.

 

And Kevin, the nice thing about owning the book is you can always go back an read it again later. You will find that with the passage of time, and some more experience, every time you go back to it yiu will understand more and more.

[EZ_E]

This book is a great read. There is an ANA DVD (ANA04-29) that features a talk by Charles Larson on a related subject: "Numismatic Forgery--Mark Hofmann and Me". This is worth getting as well.

 

Ah, "The Mormon Murders". Ever read the book? Quite interesting.

[Arizonadesertrat]

I haven't read the "Mormon Murders" book, but I was living in Salt Lake City at the time. The two main newspapers had lots of articles about Hofmann.

[stinkycheese1]

I have that but haven't watched it yet.

 

I enjoyed Numismatic Forgery. There wasn't a lot in it that I didn't already know (but I've been at this a long time.) but the clear presentation and explanations made it an interesting read, and the information it does contain is something every collector should be aware of.

 

I think Kevin exaggerates a little when he implies you would need a good knowledge of metallurgy for this book. I think most everyone here would be able to understand a good deal of it.

 

And Kevin, the nice thing about owning the book is you can always go back an read it again later. You will find that with the passage of time, and some more experience, every time you go back to it yiu will understand more and more.

 

Yes, that's true. However, I didn't understand and still don't quite understand what a lathe does and how it can machine other things.

 

EZ_E, glad to see you purchased it. Once you read it PM me and let me know what you think of it

 

[Oldtrader3]

I also was living in Salt Lake during the hijinks of Mark Hoffman. He was a piece of work. He forged many Morman papers and Morman gold coins, prior to blowing himself up in his car and getting caught by the authorities while trying to set a mailbox bomb fuse. This was after he had killed and maimed with his mailbox bombs, some people who were blowing the whistle on him and a couple of innocent bystanders. Of course forged Morman gold coins are nothing new. It is my understanding that there are many more forgeries than legitimate Morman gold coins.

[Conder101]

Keven,

 

A lathe is a machine that rotates a piece of wood or metal at high speed and the operator holds a cutting tool against the spinning object in order to cut away material to reach the final finished shape. The operator can either be a person or a computer controlled robot.

 

Since it can be difficult to convey what I mean with words, here is a 41 second Youtube video of a computer controlled metal lathe cutting a chess pawn out of brass.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9074335854782028277&ei=ht2ZSJH7B4yC4wKS6JUr&q=lathe&vt=lf

 

Once it finishes you can look at other videos that show other demonstrations but this one should give you some idea as to how they would cut a basic die die shape out of a block of tool steel, or cut it down to its final dimensions after the hubbing was finished. (You wouldn't cut it down before hubbing because the extra material around the hubbed area would help prevent cracking during the hubbing process.)

[just-john]

Stinky this is how a lath is used to form metal not cutting but look at youtube type metal spinning forming http://www.youtube.com/user/metalspinningworkshop

[Conder101]

While the mint or a counterfeiter may have had some use for metal forming by spinning, I think mostly they would be using it for cutting.

[just-john]

just showing different use of lathe . Comparing a CNC-VMC-HMC machine to a lathe is like comparing a needle and thread to a modern computer driven singer

[stinkycheese1]

For people that don't know, something I found interesting and finally makes me understand the authentication process a little better.

 

For the transfer-to-transfer process using a dye and a geniune host coin, all the defects from the geniune host coin will be transferred to the fake coin. If 2 of the counterfeit coins made from the same dies ever meet, and are discovered, since they have the same markings, they can be deemed counterfeit. The counterfeiter is aware of this, so he tries to mask these defects by tooling, or other alterations. At least that's how I see it..not sure if I'm right.

 

 

[Conder101]

Pretty much, and that is also where the description about "repeating depressions" comes from. It doesn't mean a coin that has several depressions on it, but from finding multiple coins that each have the same depressions in the same location on them. That depression is typically from a hit or contact mark that was on the original coin that the die was made from. And you are right the counterfeiter, once he learns of a defect on his die that identifies his fakes, will try and tool it away. But usually that just creates a new batch of tool marks in the same location which still allows you to identify the fake.