disappointed with first NCS/NGC submission

[ctrl-migration]

Editing to add: I called NCS and they gave me NGC credit for the missing coupon. I appreciate it.

 

I asked in a different post what could have gone wrong with my submission to NCS/NGC. Now that I've gotten my coins back, I'm even more unhappy.

 

The summary is basically this:

 

1. I joined CS to submit to NCS and NGC with at least one coin that I really wanted to be conserved.

2. To use the 5 free early birds coupon along with conservation, I had to submit them all through NCS first. I decided to make a submission of my favorites from what I've purchased and inherited. From discussions with dealers and other knowledgeable collectors, I expected 2 to go through to NGC, 2 to be slabbed by NCS only and 1 could go either way.

3. On the submission form I checked 'Conserve all' and 'Grade by NGC / NCS' as well as 'Internet Imaging' since I don't yet have a good camera setup.

4. When I got my coins at the end of the week:

- None had been conserved, even the one that seemed like an obvious candidate - the whole point of joining NGC/NCS

- All had been slabbed by NCS as 'Improperly Cleaned'

- None had been imaged

- I didn't get my coupon back for the 5 free NGC submissions even though none had been used

 

End of summary: I feel like NCS simply saw a little guy with some (validly) improperly cleaned coins and marked them all, didn't bother to conserve the one that needed it, didn't bother to image anything and just slabbed them all as the same problem and sent them back without the coupon. Like they didn't care about it at all.

 

I knew that some had been cleaned, but I felt confident enough after showing them to several people that at least a couple would go through to NGC, and that one would be conserved.

 

Now, maybe on that I'm just too much of a novice and was completely fooled. I can handle that, but the fact that NCS didn't conserve anything PLUS didn't photograph the coins as I asked makes me very suspicious that they simply saw me as a little guy and didn't even bother to look at the order, much less examine the coins very well. They all got the same problem. Not even an 'Env Damage' on the one they didn't conserve.

 

At least give me the coupon back... I feel like they just tried to take me for as much money for as little work as possible. I know could be wrong, but that's what it seems like.

 

I've attached scans that I had to do myself since NCS didn't photograph them. Sorry for the quality (I tried adjusting the images for the dime and quarter to be as close as possible). Tell me, please, how wrong I am. I can be reasonable and I know I'm still a novice, but this has seriously upset me.

 

[MunkyMan95]

From what I can see, at least 3 are definitely cleaned (the Barber Dime, Quarter, and 1827 CBH)

 

The other two, NCS may have it right. It's very hard to tell from your scans, especially with the Gold $1 being so small.

 

which coin did you want them to conserve? What was wrong with it?

[123cents]

All were cleaned so they were slabbed NCS not NGC. Sorry but what is there to conserve?

[cpm9ball]

I can understand your disappointment, but I must differ with your opinion regarding NGC/NCS. Did you specify in the space provided what problems concerned you for each coin? These people aren't trained to be mindreaders. Okay, so you didn't get your coupon returned. Did you call NGC and speak to someone about it in Customer Service? In my opinion, they are all top-notch and will do everything within their power to help the customers. As far as I'm concerned, NGC goes that "extra mile" to try to satisfy their customers, but I guess, in your eyes, their standards aren't as good as some of the other TPGS'. If you haven't already called NGC, I suggest that you do so first thing Monday.

 

Chris

[ctrl-migration]

I can understand your disappointment, but I must differ with your opinion regarding NGC/NCS. Did you specify in the space provided what problems concerned you for each coin? These people aren't trained to be mindreaders. Okay, so you didn't get your coupon returned. Did you call NGC and speak to someone about it in Customer Service? In my opinion, they are all top-notch and will do everything within their power to help the customers. As far as I'm concerned, NGC goes that "extra mile" to try to satisfy their customers, but I guess, in your eyes, their standards aren't as good as some of the other TPGS'. If you haven't already called NGC, I suggest that you do so first thing Monday.

 

Chris

 

On the dime, I detailed exactly what I saw on the submission. I'm not saying I know better - I said I'm a novice, but with no conservation on the dime, no imaging as I requested and no return of the coupon it's just too many things.

 

Link to closer images of the dime: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=125354&Number=2357304#Post2357304

 

It could be that these are just too worthless and so I shouldn't even bother.

[jesbroken]

I'm not sure about the gold nor the 1814 half from these pics, but feel sure the others have been cleaned, especially the dime and 1827 half. Chris has given great advice. Call NCS on Monday and ask them why it wasn't conserved(removal of the 'pvc' as you like), then call NGC and speak with them in regards to your five free coupon. These are great people and I feel sure they will satisfactorily answer your questions. By the way they did charge you then for the NCS slabs-right?

Good luck and sorry for the bad taste from your first submission. Seriously, you do need to specifically explain what you need/expect done by them and maybe you would have been better informed. Good luck for the future regardless of how you go.

Jim

 

[Oldtrader3]

If NGC body bags or puts your coins in NCS holders, you don't get your coupon back. Also, if NGC only BB's the coins and doesn't NCS slab them, you still don't get your coupon back because they went through grading and did not pass. If the coins are cleaned, they can not be conserved and will be slabbed as cleaned with no conservation. I think the this is your first experience and you don't know the ropes yet.

 

I do not believe that NGC took advantage of you. I think that you just wasted a coupon on cleaned coins and you don't get the coupon back for cleaned coins because if the graders looked at the coins, your money is spent.. We all have had cleaned coins that have fooled us and have spent money to get the coin back not graded for "Improperly Cleaned". IMHO, that is what you just did.

[jgrinz]

All were cleaned so they were slabbed NCS not NGC. Sorry but what is there to conserve?

 

Maybe he does not realize that even after conservation "THE COIN IS STILL CLEANED" - I think they saved him money by NOT conserving a coin which will ultimately ending up in a NCS "CLEANED" holder

[123cents]

All were cleaned so they were slabbed NCS not NGC. Sorry but what is there to conserve?

 

Maybe he does not realize that even after conservation "THE COIN IS STILL CLEANED" - I think they saved him money by NOT conserving a coin which will ultimately ending up in a NCS "CLEANED" holder

 

 

Exactly!

[MunkyMan95]

Precisely. NCS can't help a cleaned coin. Once it's cleaned, there's no turning back.

[bsshog40]

I 100% agree with OT3, jgrinz, and 123cents. If the coins were cleaned to start with, you basically wasted your coupons on coins that would not grade. Once these coins are recognized as being cleaned thru NCS, they won't go to NGC.

[ctrl-migration]

And I didn't ask for that (wanting to conserve a cleaned coin), I'm not an i-diot. I was under the impression from myself and several others who know more than me that it would go through.

[jgrinz]

And I didn't ask for that (wanting to conserve a cleaned coin), I'm not an i-diot. I was under the impression from myself and several others who know more than me that it would go through.

 

Huh ... In your words ...

 

"I joined CS to submit to NCS and NGC with at least one coin that I really wanted to be conserved."

 

"I knew that some had been cleaned, but I felt confident enough after showing them to several people that at least a couple would go through to NGC, and that one would be conserved."

 

Why would you conserve a cleaned coin ... They saved you money by not doing it BUT they spent thier time to look at your coins probably wondering what you were seeing to conserve them ( Using your coupons ) and sent them back in NCS holders as such being " CLEANED"

 

They did thier job .... sorry if you were not happy but be more informed next time

 

 

 

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

But in fact, they are slabbed and graded, by NCS, but only a details grade with the problem noted.

 

1897-O 10C XF Details

1914-S 25C AU Details

1853 G$1 AU Details

1814 50C F Details even attribution of 0-105

1827 50C AF Details 0-118

 

The buck stopped @NCS because apparently those professionals did not feel that conservation was a viable option with these coins, they are not in the habit of blowing off customers, even when submitted with Early Bird Submissions.

 

You paid for a service that could not be performed, but that service included exactly what they did to the coins, graded the details and then encapsulated them. Sorry to hear about your displeasure with this first submission

[ctrl-migration]

"Huh ..."

 

I did not think they were going to be conserving a *cleaned* coin. I was under the impression the dime was going through to NGC. I understand you think I'm a total fool, fine. But I did not expect for them to conserve a cleaned coin, from what I thought I knew. I defer to your experience.

[ctrl-migration]

they are not in the habit of blowing off customers

Like I said, they did not even image the coins as I had asked, so that plus all the other things got to me. It's clear to me now here, however, I shouldn't be doing this.

[WoodenJefferson]

Mistakes are made, by the customers and by the company doing the requested work, that's why companies that care, have a customer service department. I suggest you call them.

[harvey8542]

Even though they are labeled problem coins I feel there are some good coins in there for what they are.

[MunkyMan95]

"Huh ..."

 

I did not think they were going to be conserving a *cleaned* coin. I was under the impression the dime was going through to NGC. I understand you think I'm a total fool, fine. But I did not expect for them to conserve a cleaned coin, from what I thought I knew. I defer to your experience.

 

So you are angry because NCS did not agree with you?

[cpm9ball]

No one thinks you are a fool, but unless you talk to NGC Customer Service, you are just "beating a dead horse".

 

Chris

[Oldtrader3]

I think that he has realized that he is over his head. I don't know who told him that a cleaned coin would be slabbed, but he got poor advice from some people. Plus NGC doesn't take pictures of BB'ed coins.

[BankNote1]

Ctrl, First I would get a different group of people to get opinions from before you send coins somewhere to get them conserved/slabbed and etc.. That is who you should be mad at is the nitwits that let you send that pile of to NCS/NGC in the first place.

NCS can do wonders but they can't unclean a cleaned coin! Those green lumps on the Barber dime look like corrosion to me. NCS can't remove corrosion. They might be able to remove some of the green PVC goop but corrosion can't be removed unless you use a wire brush! You can do that yourself without NCS help.

I would suggest you either learn what a cleaned coin looks like or buy coins in NGC and or PCGS slabs to begin with. It sounds like that would save you money in the long run.

I sent in 2 coins to NCS for a little conservation and they are both being mailed back to me in NGC holders. One of the pieces was graded higher by 3 points after NCS conservation! The other coin was graded MS64 just as I expected. There was residue on the coin that would keep it from slabbing. NCS removed it and sent the piece to NGC.

Everyone stumbles a bit when they first get into coin collecting. I have been burned big time but I have tried to learn from it and not get angry at the wrong ones.

 

[World Colonial]

I think that he has realized that he is over his head. I don't know who told him that a cleaned coin would be slabbed, but he got poor advice from some people. Plus NGC doesn't take pictures of BB'ed coins.

 

This is not correct at least in my case. I have had NCS holdered coins imaged before. I requested this so that I could sell them on eBay.

[World Colonial]

I think others have probably already commented on your post points but here are my two cents worth.

 

The only thing that comes to mind from your post that NGC/NCS did not do correctly is to image your coins. But they would have no incentive to do so on purpose and if you were not charged, then I do not think this is really worth complaining about.

 

On your other points, you were simply misinformed on the NGC/NCS procedures and if a dealer told you what I understand from your post that they did, they were wrong. It is as simple as that.

 

The posters who have stated that NGC/NCS will not give you your coupon back should be correct because NCS evaluated and holdered your coins and should be paid for this service. I have never used a coupon for an NCS submisison, but you should have asked THEM first to make sure you were getting the service you thought you were.

 

Whether a coin needs conservation is a matter of opinion and most likely, they are in a position to know this better than most collectors who submit to them. My understading is that they will only do so to prevent further damage or to remove surface residue which will make the coin eligible for grading or improve the grade. But I could be wrong.

 

In terms of your disappointment that none of your coins ended up in an NGC holder, you are not the first one. I have attended shows and had the NGC rep evaluate coins before submisison and STILL had them rejected. The reason is that the graders had a different opinion that he (and I) did. That is going to happen.

 

What you need to do is to learn how to evaluate coins better before you submit them and you also need to familiarize yourself with the procedures/process of whatever grading service you use.

 

Submitting coins for conservation and grading can get expensive really fast if you do not evaluate your coins adequately and submit them judiciously. I still make mistakes even though my rejects have decreased a lot since I started.

 

I can understand your disappointment but consider your statements that they treated you unfairly as not having merit. I think if you were to poll the members of this board, you would find that with limited exceptions, they are either satisfied or mostly satisfied with the NGC and NCS service. I have found them to be very efficient and professional in my dealings, though I have not always agreed with the grades they assigned or was diappointed with a reject.

[coinman1794]

It's very possible that the coins were conserved. Conservation doesn't alwasy mean "made pure white." They could have been rinsed in acetone to remove residue and stabilize them before certification. And, if all showed signs of cleaning, they all got a "cleaned" designation for that reason. However, they clearly didnt complete your order properly if the coins were not imaged, so it would be a good idea to ask them up front about your concerns.

[ant]

i to have had my dealings with ncs/ngc in begining and even thaught the same way at one time. but as i have stuck with it and asked many many questions and shown many pictures my body bag count has gone down.the steps you pay for are:

 

* they recieve coin

*they look at coin (3 people do this)

* they grade coin ( which may include a body bag or "non grade" )

*they review coins again after grading

*they picture coin (where applicable)

*they ship coin

 

might i add that when you join you get a packet that includes a NON GRADE booklet that is very informative. if you need another copy they would be happy to send to you upon request

 

dont give up! when most started we felt over our heads. but if you stick with it your self grading skills will get better and you will get far less bad purchases and body bags.

 

there are also many people on these boards that offer a "review" for those who are not sure to send or not. just contact them through the boards and send them what you want reviewed. and for a small fee or even free sometimes you can save yourself some heart ache.

 

and always remember" there are no dumb questions ".

[ctrl-migration]

Regarding the dime: It was most certainly not conserved, it looks the same and I was not charged for conservation. You guys might think it's trashable, but it was one of my favorites from an inherited set and I wanted it to be professionally conserved not only to improve the appearance by removing the green globs on it, but also to protect it from those spots damaging it more in the future.

 

I've read of cases where NCS conserved a coin only for it to be labelled as 'improperly cleaned'. I did not think this one would be body-bagged, so I was not knowingly asking NCS to 'unclean' a cleaned coin. I know that. I wanted the green removed regardless and they didn't do it. I don't care that it was ineligible to go to NGC before or after conservation. I disagree that it was "a service that could not be performed".

 

Regarding the coupon: I paid the same amount as I would have if I had not included the coupon, correct? Or is it the case that if a coin won't make it to NGC, you have to pay BOTH NGC *and* NCS?

 

I'm sure these actually are all dumb statements and questions. I am clearly 'over my head' and shouldn't be doing any of this.

[jgrinz]

Regarding the dime: It was most certainly not conserved, it looks the same and I was not charged for conservation. You guys might think it's trashable, but it was one of my favorites from an inherited set and I wanted it to be professionally conserved not only to improve the appearance by removing the green globs on it, but also to protect it from those spots damaging it more in the future.

 

I've read of cases where NCS conserved a coin only for it to be labelled as 'improperly cleaned'. I did not think this one would be body-bagged, so I was not knowingly asking NCS to 'unclean' a cleaned coin. I know that. I wanted the green removed regardless and they didn't do it. I don't care that it was ineligible to go to NGC before or after conservation. I disagree that it was "a service that could not be performed".

 

Regarding the coupon: I paid the same amount as I would have if I had not included the coupon, correct? Or is it the case that if a coin won't make it to NGC, you have to pay BOTH NGC *and* NCS?

 

I'm sure these actually are all dumb statements and questions. I am clearly 'over my head' and shouldn't be doing any of this.

 

We, I am sure , are sorry if this comes off as degrading your efforts but learning is learning no matter what form it takes. We love new members here but I would second guess any one that said these were salvageable. They are wonderful in thier own right and probably good for a NICE Deluxe Dansco for Types Sets.

The green stuff I am told you can help yourself with 100% acetone - it will not damage the coin perse but help negate some of the problems with these coins.

Someone pipe in for home remedies so these WONDERFUL coins maybe a good start on a type set CTRL

 

mike

 

[MikeInFL]

Ctrl, Have you called NGC/NCS yet?...Mike

[relicsncoins]

Why can't a cleaned coin be conserved? Granted, the conservation will not help the cleaning, but there may be other issues. Let's say you have a key date coin that has a light cleaning that would prevent it from slabbing with NGC, but also is suffering from a bit of PVC residue. They would conserve the PVC problem and then NCS slab the coin.

 

JJ