What does "original" mean to you?

[rons]

While looking at some rolls of coins on the bay I came across the following description

This is outstanding roll of beauties is not a put-together roll like most dealers offer. You are looking at an original Morgan Dollar roll from the 1878-S mintage. Based on the tremendous eye-appeal each of these Morgans possess, I believe that most would easily grade at MS63 - MS64 with a professional grading service.

 

This outstanding roll of beauties is not a put-together roll like most dealers offer. You are looking at an original Morgan Dollar roll from the 1883-O mintage.

 

 

So how does the seller know? How would you know? Is there such a thing as a 130 year old "original" roll? Is the description just a part of the selling game? Why should anyone believe either of the rolls is original? Is it incumbent upon the seller to verify his statement or is it an opinion? Just some food for thought and education Please respond with your thoughts, experiences, and knowledge of this collecting area

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's my take on it.

 

It is impossible to know 100% for sure whether a roll is truly original, just as it's impossible to know 100% for sure if any particular coin is original. However, you can get a pretty good idea on whether a roll is "put together". Look at the edges. If they are all different colors, differing shades of grey, etc., then chances are excellent you have a "put together" roll. If the edges are all identically soft grey to silver grey in color, then there's a very good chance they coins were together in the same paper roll.

 

Hope this helps. I've had the opportunity to examine many hundreds, and likely thousands of rolls, both put together and not, and that above is what my experience tells me.

[WoodenJefferson]

I have yet to see a definitive point in time when the Government banks, institutions or the public sector in general actually started to use paper coin rolls to house a certain number (dollar amount) of coins. As far as I know, all silver dollars through 1904 were transported from the mint in $1000 canvas bags and then broken up into lots once they reached their final destinations.

 

I have no idea how the 1921 Morgan dollar was handled nor the Peace Dollars. Perhaps the 1921’s did get into “original” bank rolls in MS condition and I would suppose there are other denominations of the Morgan’s that got into “original rolls” but as to when they were rolled, or who actually rolled them is a good question.

 

Perhaps RWB has some additional information on this topic as well as others here.

 

In the context of which you speak, to me “original” means “never been opened” since it’s sealing, how ever sealed, glue, lead seal, simple wrap, tie, etc.

 

[BankNote1]

From what I have seen on eBay I wouldn't trust the word "original" no matter what the seller is describing! "Original rolls" doesn't mean that the coins were rolled at the mint. The coins were shipped in bags and were rolled at the various banks. Many rolls got searched by collectors for the higher grade coins then lesser grade coins would be put in their place.

 

All of the original silver dollar rolls have coins that look much the same in lustre, strike, and toning.

[MikeInFL]

"What does "original" mean to you?"

 

A synonym of "natural", quite subjective, and often used to justify a higher price or elicit higher bids.

[physics-fan3.14]

Original is in the eye of the beholder. That being said, to me, an original coin is one that has never been tampered with. It doesn't matter if it has been circulated or not, it has just not been the subject of wilful manipulation with an intent to improve its appearance, desirability, rarity, or value. This includes dipping, wiping, altering, cleaning, whizzing, spot removal, at'ing, or any other method to improve its desirability. I can't know 100% whether or not a coin is original, but if it doesn't display signs of having been tampered with, then I will say it is original enough for me.

[James_OldeTowne]

An important point was made by a couple of other posters, but I wanted to place additional emphasis on it. Morgan dollars were not rolled by the mint, but by banks. So it is correct that the term "original roll" is not a representation of how the twenty coins left the mint, but rather how they were stored in a bank vault.

[michael]

This outstanding roll of beauties is not a put-together roll like most dealers offer. You are looking at an original Morgan Dollar roll from the 1883-O mintage.

 

 

So how does the seller know?--------- I DO NOT KNOW THIS SELLER; BUT IT IS MOSTLY EXPERIENCE

WEATHER; THE SELLER HAS THIS EXPERIENCE AND/OR IS TELLING THE TRUTH IS QUITE ANOTHER STORY

 

How would you know?------ I WOULD KNOW BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES BUT OF COURSE YOU NEVER KNOW FOR SURE but it is possible to tell from a reasonable certainty

 

Is there such a thing as a 130 year old "original" roll?----ON MY YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Is the description just a part of the selling game?----MOST/SOME OF THE TIME----yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PerryHall]

If the so called original roll has some high grade coins, it's probably an original roll. Otherwise, I'd assume it was picked through and the better grade coins were removed.

[James_OldeTowne]

In my experience, it is unusual for an "original roll" to have a few high grade coins. If anything, the coins in a particular roll tend to be within 2 points of each other. Also, certain dates seem to lend themselves to certain grade ranges. For example, if you find an OBW roll of 1954-S Franklin halves, they are likely to be MS-64 to MS-66, whereas a 1963 roll will only be MS-62 to MS-64. If you find an OBW roll of 1886-O Morgan dollars, they will likely be MS-61 to MS-63. A roll of 1948 quarters is likely to be MS-64 to MS-66. A roll of 1957 Jefferson nickels is going to likely have poorly struck coins grading MS-61 to MS-63. There's just usually a pretty remarkable consistency in general appearance and grade for all the coins in an original roll. Put together rolls are rarely this consistent, and low quality PTRs may have sliders and cleaned coins.

 

It's also unusual to find that a single or two coins are scratched and the others not, or just one coin out of a whole original roll has heavy bagmarks. Or that one coin in the middle of the roll will suddenly be toned (end-of-roll toners always being the exception, of course).

 

It is rather unusual to have a roll MS-62 to MS-64 dollars, with one MS-67 sitting in the middle of it.

 

(Again, just my own experience, but certainly other collectors have had different experience.)

[physics-fan3.14]

James, that last post jibes with what I've heard as well, although I must defer to your greater experience.