There may be an influx of new members.

[Houston Investor]

They can be really obnoxious over there and if more of them come here I do not believe they will be any worse than some of the ones I have had some fun sparring with here. However, it can be addictive and I have had to step back from their provoking influence into a more civilized mode.

 

Any day I expect DH to shut down the entire PCGS forums and I would not blame him. As far as the mods there I am sure they suffer post traumatic stress from their job having to babysit so many egos. I can see a psychologist reading their posts and saying "well here's a manic depressive, this guy has a schizoid personality, oh and this guy has a god complex."

[gmarguli]

I think maybe Greg missed the point that we also are paying (!) for the honor of submitting coins to both NGC/PCGS and for being members of their forums. In the case of NGC, we are also getting (5) grading certificates. In the case of PCGS, we get nothing in return except a useless code book and the honor (?) of direct submission. So, PCGS gets $50/year/member for doing essentially nothing. This is pretty good revenue for the service that PCGS provides.

 

I suspect that most people who sign up at PCGS do so at the level with the free gradings.

 

Also, at PCGS (maybe NGC too), the freebie submissions are rushed thru the grading process faster than if they were just standard submissions.

 

Overall, I suspect the submitters get more from their memberships than if they could submit for no membership cost.

 

You can also not pay for the honor at both services. You can apply to become an authorized dealer (I've done it for both companies and the process is simple) and get even lower submission rates or if you don't meet the requirements you can submit thru a dealer.

[TomB]

Lehigh96, I think we can definitely agree that the post could have been worded differently and in many industries should have been worded differently. (thumbs u

[michael]

It’s rudely worded and intentionally so. I’d lose my job if I started writing emails in that tone…

Carol has posted in that tone on other matters in the past and has been at her job for a long time. That should tell you something about whether she has the general blessing of management or not on such matters.

 

Arrogance is a way of life at PCGS. That’s why Carol and the management get along so well. And it's one of the reasons why I have no desire to ever to deal them directly. Of course that means that they get less of my money in the long run.

 

Arrogance comes from the top down. If you wanted to define “arrogance” in a picture dictionary, all you would need would be a picture of David Hall.

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u

[Syngraphic]

Has anyone got a list of subjects that members have been thrown off the PCGS / CU forums for? I would think that discussions about their stock prices would certainly qualify.

[James_OldeTowne]

The only reason PCGS can act this way towards their customers is because they are presently on top in the market. It is that type of thinking that will quickly make you number 2.

 

Actually, NGC is pretty much kicking their . PCGS is not on top.

For that matter, I believe it has been quite some years since PCGS was #1. It appears to me that based on sheer business volume and financial success, NGC is stomping PCGS. But that is a gut feeling.

[physics-fan3.14]

Has anyone got a list of subjects that members have been thrown off the PCGS / CU forums for? I would think that discussions about their stock prices would certainly qualify.

 

I wouldn't invest in their stock if it was given to me. I would sell it immediately. Not because I've got anything really against PCGS (except they're arrogant, higher priced, have worse customer service, unattractive and inferior holders, and a toxic forum), but becuase just looking at their stock and underlying fundamentals, PCGS is a terrible company. They have little growth potential, negative return on assets, and significantly negative cash flow. Link for those interested: http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:CLCT It would be interesting to compare NGC, but they of course are privately held.

[CHABSENTIA]

Seems a little arrogant. What are the standards for low revenue. My latest submission is Modern Coins as I have finished my Morgans for various reasons. Only five this time but one of them has a Numismedia Value of $400.00 and one has a Numismedia value of $350.00 and the total of all five is over a thousand dollars.

 

Now we are not true Collectors unless we collect coins that are only worth a certain amount of Money and they are non Modern Coins? It isn't significant unless people also submit a certain number of coins at one time?

 

It's not arrogant at all. And not a single word was spoken about being a "true collector" based on the dollar value of the coin submitted. It's just basic business math. The TPG probably do not make much money on the lower cost submissions (excluding bulk). Someone submitting 25 modern coins is only generating a couple hundred in revenue for the TPG. About the same as someone submitting 5 Express submissions. It takes a significantly larger quantity of modern coins to equal the revenue/profit of a couple more expensive tier coins.

 

I do not know where each TPG would draw the line at low revenue customer vs. a "special" customer. However, I know without a doubt that every TPG and business does draw this line and is more concerned with attracting/retaining the "special" customers than the infrequent submitters. They'd be foolish not to.

 

Most of the forum members appear to be submitting coins at the modern or economy levels. It can take a lot of these coins in order to generate significant revenues. Excluding a couple of dealers who participate mainly on the Registry forum and do larger bulk submissions, few of these forum members ever talk about submissions over 50 coins and most seem to be 15 coins or less.

 

If you take a look at the Shared Orders page at PCGS - which I assume is mainly forum members, you'll see the average submission is not a lot of coins. In this case the company probably feels pretty secure in knowing that if they choose to lose a forum member/customer it won't hurt them much. Like I said before, it's picking which ones you can do without that is the hard part. One day you might be unceremoniously dumped from the forums, but a few years later you might have multiple representatives of that very same company repeatedly approaching you at shows and wanting to put the ugliness of the past in the past and start working together. Funny how life/business works.

 

Which was my point. You seem to be putting a number on submissions and then equating it to the type of coins that are submitted. If I submit 5 coins and the resulting grades give them a Numismeida value of $1200.00 then I am no different than the person who submits 5 coins that have a resultant Numismedia value of say $300.00 It is even worse if they are of the "Modern" tier Then there is your comment that "people submitting less than 25 coins are not contributing much revenue to the TPGS". So I guess that people submitting less than 25 coins at one time aren't that important. Let me guess. As a rule you submit more than 25 coins at a time.

 

Secondlt it seems that you imply that those people submitting less than 25 coins at a time or less important to the TPGS because they are not a significant source of Revenue.

 

 

By that reasoning then McDonalds that might sell 10 million Hamburgers to several people over a certain time frams at $.99 isn't as important as a sleek Dining establishment that sells significantly far less Hamburgers at $9.99.

 

Is the Coffee that sells for $6.00 a cup at Starbucks more important then the $1.25 cup at the local Diner?

 

If a person that can only afford to "collect" and spend a fixed amount of Money every month less important then the one who can spend several thousand a month?Would the TPG s rather have millions of Customers spending money on 25 or less coins in the Modern Tier than just a few thousand Customers sending in 25 or more coins at a time.?

[gmarguli]

Which was my point. You seem to be putting a number on submissions and then equating it to the type of coins that are submitted. If I submit 5 coins and the resulting grades give them a Numismeida value of $1200.00 then I am no different than the person who submits 5 coins that have a resultant Numismedia value of say $300.00 It is even worse if they are of the "Modern" tier Then there is your comment that "people submitting less than 25 coins are not contributing much revenue to the TPGS". So I guess that people submitting less than 25 coins at one time aren't that important. Let me guess. As a rule you submit more than 25 coins at a time.

Numismedia value is meaningless. The TPG don't care about the value of the coins submitted, only the revenue the submissions bring to them.

 

It's not that the people submitting 25 moderns coins to the TPG aren't important, but rather they aren't as important business wise as those submitting using the higher priced tiers. Additionally, the original point was that most of the people on the forums ATS submit only a few coins overall, so the loss of them as a customer isn't going to have a major (or likely noticeable) impact on the revenue of the company.

 

And as a general rule, yes, I generally submit more than 25 coins at a time. However, I usually use the less expensive tiers and also negotiate discounts on certain submissions. This month my submissions to all the TPG have been (2) Walk-Thru, (5) Express, (4) Regular, (2208) Economy, and (128) Modern. I'm sure that the TPGs would value these submissions less than one of the big firms dropping off 250 Walk-Thru's or 500 Express - even though the revenue would be about the same - as the amount of work would be far less for the higher priced tiers.

 

For example, the modern tier coins that I submitted, I negotiated a rate at less than half the published rate and also secured a faster that normal turnaround time. Do you think the TPG would rather grade all those modern coins for me quicker than normal or grade a handful of express submissions and get the same amount of revenue? My submission is clearly less important to them. It's important enough to still make the deal, but they'd rather lose me as a customer than someone who spends the same amount submitting a significantly smaller number of coins.

 

 

Secondlt it seems that you imply that those people submitting less than 25 coins at a time or less important to the TPGS because they are not a significant source of Revenue.

 

Absolutely. I don't know what you do for a living, but is the customer who spends $10/month with your company as important as the customer who spends $10,000/month?

 

Take that one step further. Is the customer who spends $10,000/month and requires you to devote 100 hours of work as important to you as the customer who spends $10,000/month and requires you to devote 30 hours of work?

 

 

By that reasoning then McDonalds that might sell 10 million Hamburgers to several people over a certain time frams at $.99 isn't as important as a sleek Dining establishment that sells significantly far less Hamburgers at $9.99.

 

No. It is that the customer who comes in once a week to McDonald's and buys a 99c hamburger is less important to them than the customer who comes in 3 times a week and buys a Big Mac combo meal for $6.50. McDonald's might like them both as customers, but values them differently.

 

 

Is the Coffee that sells for $6.00 a cup at Starbucks more important then the $1.25 cup at the local Diner?

 

Not to each establishment. However, a $1.25 cup of coffee sold at Starbucks is less important to them than a $6 cup of coffee sold at the same Starbucks.

 

 

If a person that can only afford to "collect" and spend a fixed amount of Money every month less important then the one who can spend several thousand a month?Would the TPG s rather have millions of Customers spending money on 25 or less coins in the Modern Tier than just a few thousand Customers sending in 25 or more coins at a time.?

 

If the revenue were the same, I can say without a doubt the TPG would rather have fewer customers sending in more coins.

[lehigh96]

Greg,

 

All of that analysis is just fine, but here is what you are missing. The minute a company starts to decide that certain customers are not worthy of their business is the minute they are on the way down. You may think that turning away customers and revenue is a good business practice, but I can assure you that you are mistaken. I think you are trying to say that it is not profitable for PCGS to handle small time submissions. If that were the case, they wouldn't offer the service. The profit margin may be lower and it may be easier to simply grade the higher tier submissions, but last time I checked, the goal is to make as much money as possible. Losing customers is never a good thing. Let me repeat that, Losing customers is never a good thing.

 

Losing customers on purpose is just plain stupid. If you tell them goodbye, where do you think they are going to end up. Thats right, as a customer of your competitor. One more thing. If PCGS is not number 1 anymore, then they really have no excuse to send their customers packing. If I am an executive at PCGS and I want to catch up with NGC, I don't think that ticking off my customers and sending them to NGC is the way to accomplish that goal.

 

Let me reiterate one thing. That post alone will not lose any customers, but if they actually start banning people from their chat boards for no good reason, they will lose customers and they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Paul

[CHABSENTIA]

Greg,

 

All of that analysis is just fine, but here is what you are missing. The minute a company starts to decide that certain customers are not worthy of their business is the minute they are on the way down. You may think that turning away customers and revenue is a good business practice, but I can assure you that you are mistaken. I think you are trying to say that it is not profitable for PCGS to handle small time submissions. If that were the case, they wouldn't offer the service. The profit margin may be lower and it may be easier to simply grade the higher tier submissions, but last time I checked, the goal is to make as much money as possible. Losing customers is never a good thing. Let me repeat that, Losing customers is never a good thing.

 

Losing customers on purpose is just plain stupid. If you tell them goodbye, where do you think they are going to end up. Thats right, as a customer of your competitor. One more thing. If PCGS is not number 1 anymore, then they really have no excuse to send their customers packing. If I am an executive at PCGS and I want to catch up with NGC, I don't think that ticking off my customers and sending them to NGC is the way to accomplish that goal.

 

Let me reiterate one thing. That post alone will not lose any customers, but if they actually start banning people from their chat boards for no good reason, they will lose customers and they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Paul

 

You are correct and his Analysis is flawed for several reasons. Several years ago during the Fast Food price wars Burger King floated the idea of the $.99 Whopper. There were two Camps. One did not favor the idea because they felt Buger King would lose Money. . The Camp favoring the $.99 won. Burger King did not lose Money on the Whopper because of the sheer volume. They also made Money because of the greater influx of people who also bought other things.

 

 

 

The $6.00 cup of Coffee at Starbucks is also an issue.In bad Economic times the person that has been paying for the $6.00 cup if Coffee is either going to eliminate it or look for the $1.25 cup of Coffee. It is already happening.

 

Mc Donalds made its bones by offering an inexpensive menu along with the fact that a person could travel across the Country and go in any McDonalds and purchase the same exact thing in New York as in California.

 

My Son has a Degree in Computer Design Graphics.. Their Main clients are Hotels. Recently they let half of their Sales people go because there is a limited amount of Revenue in that area. You are already seeing Restaurants that charge the same price but are cutting down on the portions because of the higher cost of food and also less Customers..

 

To say that there is more Revenue in the larger orders and the different tiers is also misleading because nobody but the TPGS know if this is the case or not. If I Submit Coins for the Modern Tier then the Normal wait is 12 Business days. The last time I checked the normal wait for the Economy Tier was 42 Business Days.

 

Is there any Evidence that their Breakeven Point for Revenue is less on the Modern Tier. Nobody knows that except the TPGS because the breakeven point might be the same for both because of the longer time for the Economy.In and out quicker might cut down on the costs.It used to be 21 working days for Economy. I would guess that a doubling of the time involved for the same service would be an extra expense for them.

 

So there is no evidence that one tier is vastly different form the other. In Marketing one has what is know as the Break even point that indicates at which point the Manufaturer begins to make a profit. It varies for each product and depends not only on the costs involved but on the number of units etc. I am also reasonably sure that without the lesser submissions and the various variables that there would be a loss.

 

Just because somebody pays more in grading fees because of larger submissions and/or more expensive tiers does not necessarily mean that those are making more Money for the Company.

 

It just might be that given the various variables such as Salary and time spent that the Moderns are making a bigger Profit per Unit.

 

 

[Conder101]

Losing customers is never a good thing. Let me repeat that, Losing customers is never a good thing.

 

Losing customers on purpose is just plain stupid. If you tell them goodbye, where do you think they are going to end up. Thats right, as a customer of your competitor.

I would have to disagree. As long as the customer represents a profit you are right. But some customers are so troublesome that every transaction with them costs more than it makes. (classic case of I lose a little on every sale but I'll make it up in volume.) If you lose these customers and they go to your competitor they are not an asset to them, they are a liability and actually damage your competitor (and isn't that a good thing?)

 

Now one thing to consider is why are these customers unprofitable? If they are unprofitable simply because they are small, it may be a good idea to hold onto them anyway because in the long term they may become larger and therefor profitable customers. If they are unprofitable simply because they are troublesome never satisfied no matter what you do customers even when you bend over backwards to accommodate them, they are better utilized in damaging your competitors business.

[Jeffrey Cardona]

Greg,

 

All of that analysis is just fine, but here is what you are missing. The minute a company starts to decide that certain customers are not worthy of their business is the minute they are on the way down. You may think that turning away customers and revenue is a good business practice, but I can assure you that you are mistaken. I think you are trying to say that it is not profitable for PCGS to handle small time submissions. If that were the case, they wouldn't offer the service. The profit margin may be lower and it may be easier to simply grade the higher tier submissions, but last time I checked, the goal is to make as much money as possible. Losing customers is never a good thing. Let me repeat that, Losing customers is never a good thing.

 

Losing customers on purpose is just plain stupid. If you tell them goodbye, where do you think they are going to end up. Thats right, as a customer of your competitor. One more thing. If PCGS is not number 1 anymore, then they really have no excuse to send their customers packing. If I am an executive at PCGS and I want to catch up with NGC, I don't think that ticking off my customers and sending them to NGC is the way to accomplish that goal.

 

Let me reiterate one thing. That post alone will not lose any customers, but if they actually start banning people from their chat boards for no good reason, they will lose customers and they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

Paul

 

You are correct and his Analysis is flawed for several reasons. Several years ago during the Fast Food price wars Burger King floated the idea of the $.99 Whopper. There were two Camps. One did not favor the idea because they felt Buger King would lose Money. . The Camp favoring the $.99 won. Burger King did not lose Money on the Whopper because of the sheer volume. They also made Money because of the greater influx of people who also bought other things.

 

 

 

The $6.00 cup of Coffee at Starbucks is also an issue.In bad Economic times the person that has been paying for the $6.00 cup if Coffee is either going to eliminate it or look for the $1.25 cup of Coffee. It is already happening.

 

Mc Donalds made its bones by offering an inexpensive menu along with the fact that a person could travel across the Country and go in any McDonalds and purchase the same exact thing in New York as in California.

 

My Son has a Degree in Computer Design Graphics.. Their Main clients are Hotels. Recently they let half of their Sales people go because there is a limited amount of Revenue in that area. You are already seeing Restaurants that charge the same price but are cutting down on the portions because of the higher cost of food and also less Customers..

 

To say that there is more Revenue in the larger orders and the different tiers is also misleading because nobody but the TPGS know if this is the case or not. If I Submit Coins for the Modern Tier then the Normal wait is 12 Business days. The last time I checked the normal wait for the Economy Tier was 42 Business Days.

 

Is there any Evidence that their Breakeven Point for Revenue is less on the Modern Tier. Nobody knows that except the TPGS because the breakeven point might be the same for both because of the longer time for the Economy.In and out quicker might cut down on the costs.It used to be 21 working days for Economy. I would guess that a doubling of the time involved for the same service would be an extra expense for them.

 

So there is no evidence that one tier is vastly different form the other. In Marketing one has what is know as the Break even point that indicates at which point the Manufaturer begins to make a profit. It varies for each product and depends not only on the costs involved but on the number of units etc. I am also reasonably sure that without the lesser submissions and the various variables that there would be a loss.

 

Just because somebody pays more in grading fees because of larger submissions and/or more expensive tiers does not necessarily mean that those are making more Money for the Company.

 

It just might be that given the various variables such as Salary and time spent that the Moderns are making a bigger Profit per Unit.

 

 

Very good point.

 

Another example about the "smaller customer" is how Obama and Clinton went about raising money for their respective campaigns. Clinton went with fewer individual donations but at much larger donation amounts. But Obama went with huge individual donations but at much smaller amount...mostly $100 and under from each. When it was all said and done....he had a huge war chest to run his campaign while Clinton was in the red.

 

Also my apologies...this is not a polital statement, just an example how smaller is sometimes works better.

[BillJones]

Losing customers is never a good thing. Let me repeat that, Losing customers is never a good thing.

 

Losing customers on purpose is just plain stupid. If you tell them goodbye, where do you think they are going to end up. Thats right, as a customer of your competitor.

 

I disagree also.

 

Years ago I dropped the biggest customer I ever had because working him became impossible. He always was price conscious, and as we went along he got worse and worse. Once he found the Gray Sheet he thought that I should sell coins to him at those prices. Then he found out about the Blue Sheet and thought I should be selling coins to him at THOSE prices. He was not looking for common “stuff.” He wanted coins that were better than what you see in my collection, and yet he thought he could buy them for wholesale or less than wholesale prices.

 

That combined with the fact that I trouble with his checks not always clearing led me to drop him. He was also high maintenance. I had to drive to his place of business to sell him coins, and leave them on consignment so he could check with another dealer to see of the coins were "a good deal." They almost always turned out to be "a good deal" for him, but his counter offers toward the end drove me crazy. My prices were already set at less than 10% mark-ups usually toward 5%, but that was not good enough. I was supposed to work for nothing.

 

A dealer I knew thought I was crazy, but I gave the dealer this guy’s name and phone number just to prove the point. That dealer did not work with him for very long either.

 

If you sell someone a coin for $20,000, but can’t many any money on the sale, what good is the sale? This is where the issue finally landed for me.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Actually, the successful model for a volume business today is to find a way to make money with the service charges that are set by the market and your competitors. If PCGS and NGC knew how to optimise their their throughput and streamline their process they could probably reduce their costs and greatly increase their gross profit margin. You can't charge a premium price for a product unless there is inherent value for the money.

 

I made my living for many years showing companies how to improve their product quality and customer service while cutting their indirect and fixed costs. They did not pay me the big bucks to go to meetings and do nothing. Their other managerial employees fulfilled that function. There are always many types of savings (money) lying on the table that companies just do not know how to manage and attain lower costs. I bet that both companies could optimize their processes, cut their scrap, qualify and validate their operators and eliminate in-process inspection which would more than likely, cut their fixed and indirect costs by 30%-40% with out spending huge amounts of money. In other words increase their gross profit by that same percentage. Cash flow is WIP (work-in-process) reduction and inventory turns. It is not magic!

 

The suggestions that I made in my unwelded slab post could increase customer satisfaction and lower defective product tenfold at a lower cost without much capital investment . Company's are just not knowledgeable about flow and efficiency. Most businesses start out on a shoestring, are primarily run by businessmen, who are not technically sophisticated and never do learn modern technique of continuous improvement and in-process Q.A. controls which could save them many thousands per month. This includes WIP savings, better troughput, less scrap and more inventory turns per month (with on-time deliveries), given their volumes and higher customer satisfaction because they get a better product integrity for less cost.

 

These companies finally go out of business because they can't think long term and won't invest in their future. There is no earthly reason for the slower than promised service, sloppiness and many errors that these companies make while handling product. Someone said this is not medical device manufacturing. No it isn't, the TPG business has much better profit potential because they don't have to make much-more complicated widgets for $0.40 apiece and make money on them.

 

The owners of these grading companies need to go through a small custom electronics plant or medical device plant and see how they make product and make money while producing many SKU's with low volume on most of them. They also sell their products for much less money wholesale than the grading companies do as well and they make money on every product.

 

The big box stores wouldn't do business with these specialty electronics manufacturers if they didn't produce quality at low cost. I believe that HRH and Ron Guth are too narrow minded to ever succeed in this model, but this should not stop NGC from whipping them at their own game. Trashing low volume customers is not the game. Making money from them is.

[WinstonWare]

Low volume and no volume submitters can still be making the market for TPG coins. I don’t pick oranges but I do purchase them…

[gmarguli]

I think you are trying to say that it is not profitable for PCGS to handle small time submissions. If that were the case, they wouldn't offer the service. The profit margin may be lower and it may be easier to simply grade the higher tier submissions, but last time I checked, the goal is to make as much money as possible.

 

I never said that it wasn't profitable. I consistently stated that the impact of losing the typical forum user would not result in a noticeable impact for the TPG as that customer does not generate much revenue for the TPG. Additionally, the profit on that revenue is much smaller than that of higher cost submissions.

[gmarguli]

You are correct and his Analysis is flawed for several reasons. Several years ago during the Fast Food price wars Burger King floated the idea of the $.99 Whopper. There were two Camps. One did not favor the idea because they felt Buger King would lose Money. . The Camp favoring the $.99 won. Burger King did not lose Money on the Whopper because of the sheer volume. They also made Money because of the greater influx of people who also bought other things.

 

I think you need to check your facts on this. Not only did this price war hurt the bottom line of McDonald's and Burger King in multiple ways, but it also devalued the burgers. The original Whopper price was $2.19, but when it was dropped to $.99 and stayed there for a significant amount of time, they had set a psychological value for it at $.99. When they tried to bring it back to the prior market price, there was consumer resistance. Why should I pay $2.19 for something that was $.99 last week? I'm getting screwed!

 

The marketing for this also "trained" people to go for the low cost items where profits were extremely slim or even negative. Here is a quote from a NY Times Article about the burger wars: "Analysts have said that both Burger King and McDonald's are losing in the price war; while customer traffic has increased, consumers are gravitating toward lower-price items and forsaking items like soft drinks, which provide much higher profit margins."

 

A perfect example of how more business isn't necessarily better for a business. FYI, the current Burger King value menu is not mandated by the company. It is optional for franchisees. Many locations felt that they would not benefit from these low cost items as discounting the price of the item did not help their overall bottom line.

[lehigh96]

Losing customers is never a good thing. Let me repeat that, Losing customers is never a good thing.

 

Losing customers on purpose is just plain stupid. If you tell them goodbye, where do you think they are going to end up. Thats right, as a customer of your competitor.

I would have to disagree. As long as the customer represents a profit you are right. But some customers are so troublesome that every transaction with them costs more than it makes. (classic case of I lose a little on every sale but I'll make it up in volume.) If you lose these customers and they go to your competitor they are not an asset to them, they are a liability and actually damage your competitor (and isn't that a good thing?)

 

Now one thing to consider is why are these customers unprofitable? If they are unprofitable simply because they are small, it may be a good idea to hold onto them anyway because in the long term they may become larger and therefor profitable customers. If they are unprofitable simply because they are troublesome never satisfied no matter what you do customers even when you bend over backwards to accommodate them, they are better utilized in damaging your competitors business.

 

I really don't understand how a customer can be so troublesome that the transaction costs you money. You don't lower your price to a point that the deal becomes unprofitable. If the customer doesn't buy at your lowest offer price and decides to shop around, that is the customer's choice. However, if you treated the customer with respect, were friendly, and offered a fair price, there is a good chance that the customer will return to buy the item at a later time after playing the field.

 

Please keep in mind that I work in an Atlantic City casino. I will flat out guarantee that I deal with more scam artists and exceedingly difficult customers than most of you can possibly imagine. I have the responsibility of determining which person is a customer or a criminal and it is not always crystal clear. The best way is to treat both the customer and criminal with respect and kindness while sticking to the policies that ensure profitability for your business.

 

I really hope that when you guys refer to losing a little on every sale but make it up in volume that you are referring to losing a little of your profit margin. Because if you are actually losing money on a sale, high volume equates to a lot of lost money. Seriously though, I am very close to removing myself from this thread. I am astounded that I am having a conversation with people who think that losing customers is a good thing.

[ldhair]

There are some customers that need to be shown the door.

I always thought a casino would show you to the door if you didn't follow their rules. There must be some that are told not to come back to the casino.

[lehigh96]

There are some customers that need to be shown the door.

I always thought a casino would show you to the door if you didn't follow their rules. There must be some that are told not to come back to the casino.

 

Anyone that breaks the law gets tossed automatically, but then again, that makes them a criminal not a customer. Other than the cheats, most people get tossed for being too drunk, but they don't get thrown out for good, just for the night.

 

I will share a story with you guys. About 5 years ago, a very thuggish man (gold teeth, timberland boots, etc.) made a scene at the Bell Services desk. I happened to be walking by the area when it happened. I asked him what the problem was and he was absolutely furious that one of the bellmen was not wearing a name tag and was convinced that the employee was an imposter. His overall body language was overly aggressive and certainly not the normal behavior of a typical casino patron. Despite my best efforts to talk him down, the confrontation quickly turned into a face to face, nose to nose talk similar to that of a baseball manager screaming at an umpire. One of my employees called security who arrived quickly at the scene. After I requested several times for the man to calm down, I was forced to have security escort him from the premises.

 

About two hours later, the security manager called me to say that the man was back and was asking to speak with me specifically. I agreed and when I met with him, his demeanor was completely different. He was calm and apologetic and simply wanted us to help him find his wife so they could leave together. He stated that when he arrived he was under the influence of a narcotic drug and that it was not his typical behavior. I helped him find his wife and they both left the property without being formally evicted and without further incident.

 

 

I only saw the man one time after that, but he lost $2,000 in the casino on his return trip. Regardless of the customer's behavior, I was able to remain professional and treat him with kindness and respect even though I had no choice but to ask him to leave the property. Had I taken a hard core approach with the man he would have been formally evicted and the casino would be out $2,000. In the grand scheme of things, $2,000 is nothing to a casino, just like Greg states that the forum members are nothing to the TPG's. The difference is that I still want that $2,000 and will do whatever I can to get it, and avoid doing anything that would jeopardize getting it.

 

 

I follow the rule that the customer is always right, even when they are not. If a transaction is not profitable, then don't do it. But when you say no to a customer, you must always remain professional and courteous.

[Oldtrader3]

Actually, you never know who you are talking to with customers. I have told this story before but, when I was a teen, I worked in a friend of my mother's art gallery in Hyannis, Cape Cod. This elderly man with an old Chrysler and an out of style, sort of worn suit came into the gallery while I was dusting pictures. The owner made a face and ignored him, so after a few minutes, I asked if I could help him. I talked to him for a couple of minutes and as it turned out, he was the founder and owner of Appleton Electric and his daughter was married to I.E. DuPont.

 

So, be nice to everyone, you don't know how it may turn out.

[CHABSENTIA]

Actually, you never know who you are talking to with customers. I have told this story before but, when I was a teen, I worked in a friend of my mother's art gallery in Hyannis, Cape Cod. This elderly man with an old Chrysler and an out of style, sort of worn suit came into the gallery while I was dusting pictures. The owner made a face and ignored him, so after a few minutes, I asked if I could help him. I talked to him for a couple of minutes and as it turned out, he was the founder and owner of Appleton Electric and his daughter was married to I.E. DuPont.

 

So, be nice to everyone, you don't know how it may turn out.

 

I have told this Story before. When I was a teenager I took lessons in a discipline of Karate in my hometown of San Bernardino California. One night the Instructor and owner introduced a friend who he said was a high degree Black Belt and that they had both been stationed together in Japan where they learned the art . He kept calling him Charlie. The guy had us line up in a line and faced each of us and we were told to do a specific move. which the gut effectively blocked. Several months later there was an article in the Local newspaper with the Guys picture and the fact that he had a gym in nearby Fontana. It told the story of how Steve McQueen the actor uses to stop by his gym on the way from Los Angeles to Lake Arrowhead which at the time was a big vacation spot for Actors. It was also the time of the Bruce Lee pictures. McQueen kept asking him to come to Hollywood and he refused but finally decided to do so.

 

The guys name is Chuck Norris and I can say that I took a swing at him when he was right in front of me.

 

 

I went to San Bernardino High School on 18th and E Street . Four Blocks away on 14th and E Street there was a little Hamburger joint that was a popular spot for the High School and others. There was one of those Blackboards on a stand that told how many Hamburgers were sold each day. A salesman came one day to bring an order for those silver metal malt makers and asked the owners if they ever thought of expanding the concept and they said that they weren't interested and had lived all their Life in San Bernardino and didn't want to leave but they gave the Saleman permission to look into it.

 

The Salesman was named Ray Kroc and the two Brothers who were the owners were named McDonald. So you never know.