I just got some great new shillings

[physics-fan3.14]

As some of you know, I am working on a shilling type set by monarch. The eventual goal is to go all the way back to the beginning of the shilling, but the early ones are pretty expensive, so I'm taking my time. I'm trying to find nice, evenly matched, dark grey original circulated pieces. The earlier ones I'm ok with lower grades, with F being about as low as I really want to go. The 19th century everything must be at least VF+, and then the 20th century things are AU-MS. My type set is complete back to Queen Anne now, with the exception of King William IV.

 

I just got these three in the mail a few days ago, from a seller on Ebay across the pond. They make a great addition to the set and fit in quite nicely. Tell me what you think!

 

Also, I really want your opinion on the last one, the George IV. Something just feels different about this one. The strike is amazingly sharp and the fields unusually smooth. The edge also kind of makes me think that this might be a circulated proof. Are there any diagnostics that would help me to confirm this? Adn what would the value difference be?

[JCM-Houston]

Very nice, you might want to check in the forums at Coins GB, Rob over there is pretty expert in Shillings and would be better at guessing then me.

 

http://coinsgbforum.com/

[physics-fan3.14]

Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check it out!

[shirohniichan]

I especially like the 1723. (thumbs u

[physics-fan3.14]

Hey, can someone with an 18th century Krause give me the Krause numbers for the 1707 Queen Anne, 1723 King George, and a 1758 King George II that I have? I was just looking over my spreadsheet, and realized I don't have the K#s for these.

[RI AL]

Hey, Physics.

 

There are 5 different shillings for 1723, km 539.1, km 539.3, km 558.1, km 558.2, km 558.3. Just on my way out but should be back shortly. I'll see if I can do a match up for ya'.

 

RI AL

[RI AL]

Hi again, Physics..

 

The phone just rang so our departure is delayed...wife is blabbing. I believe that your coin is KM 539.3. 1723 is the only year from this KM number. Values according to the catalog, if interested, $12.50 in VG, $25 Fine...for the higher grades, $60 in VF and $250 in XF. Mintage is of course unknown. Varieties exist, as I note a slight difference in the bust angle from the example in the catalog. Also, the coin was struck from silver from the South Sea Company.

 

RI Al

[RI AL]

Hello again, Physics.

 

The 1707 shilling, is very similar to 517.7 but it was only minted in 1708. Several varieties exist for the 1707 date, and I have eliminated most of them. I based this on several factors. The fact that there is no E nor a star below the bust eliminates several. Also, there are no roses and plumes between the 4 shields on the reverse which eliminates others. The problem is that the shape of the 4 shields on the reverse does not exactly match 523.1 and the reverse motto does not match either. 517.6 in my mind is the closest match, but your coin has no E nor the star beneath the bust. None of the illustrations in the catalog show a space between the 4 reverse crowns and the shields. 517.6 also shows the small curl on the bust halfway between the DEI and GRATIA, while none of the other pictures shows this curl. But again, I don't see an E or star under the bust on you pictures. So, I'm stumped! Hopefully someone else can shed some light on your coin who has other resources to look in.

 

For the 1723 shilling, I am going with 539.3, issued only in 1723. The most obvious key here is that the ribbon in George's hair does not have a loop. The loop is present on 558.1 and 558.3. The reverse motto does not match 558.1, 558.2 has roses and plumes on the reverse and 558.3 has interlocking C's between the shields and plumes in the other 2 areas where the interlocking C's aren't. Finally, 539.3 is the first bust type, while 558.1, 558.2 and 558.3 are the second bust type. So again, I think you have a nice KM 539.3.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more definitive on the 1707. It says that many varieties exist and I just couldn't pinpoint an exact match.

 

RI AL

[physics-fan3.14]

Thanks, Al. Great info!

[RI AL]

MY pleasure, Physics. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to help YOU out a bit!!

 

RI AL

[RI AL]

Hey again, Physics. Regarding the 1826 shilling, Very nice looking coin! I can't help with the proof or non-proof question but have you looked closely at the date? There is an 1826/2 variety and from your picture, I think something may be going on under the 6 but I'm not sure.

 

Difference in values,

 

A "proof" of KM 694 lists at $400.

The 1826 regular strike lists at $100 in XF and $220 in Unc.

The 1826/2 has no listed value in the Standard Catalog of World Coins. If of interest, for the regular strike 1826 coins, the mintage was 6,352,000.

[physics-fan3.14]

Yeah, I got some guys on the great britain forum linked above to help me. They said that it is definitely a business strike. I don't know about the overdate, I'll look at it again when I get back to shore. Hey, can you give me a Krause # for a 1757 King George II shilling? Sorry, I don't have a picture out here with me.

[RI AL]

Good morning, Physics.

 

I see no KM listing for a 1757 shilling. KM 583.3 includes 1746, 1750/40, 1750/6, 1750, 1751 and 1758. According to "World Coins", there were no George ll shillings minted in 1757. I know he was king until 1760 (he died in the "water closet". Can you ask your British experts about this one?

 

RI AL

[physics-fan3.14]

Ooops, haha. Yeah, its a 1758. Even my memory is not infallible, I see. I was confusing this one with the 1787 George III that I need to buy. Thanks, Al.

[RI AL]

You're forgiven this time, Physics...considering you're on the high seas and all..

 

I just did a double check to make sure there were no other types with the 1758 date, and no, there aren't. So you have a KM 583.3. If of interest, catalog values are: VG $8, F $13, VF $30, XF $65. No price for Unc.

 

RI AL

[World Colonial]

I am working on a shilling set too, but mine is from South Africa from 1923-1960. I just bought the 1944, 1946 and 1947 business trikes in AU-UNC. Of the tough dates, i now only need the 1926 (I have a cleaned VF), 1930, 1931 and 1933 AND 1945.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'm just doing a type set by monarch right now, but I may eventually expand that to shillings from around the rest of the world as well. We'll see. I'd love to see some of yours!

[shirohniichan]

I'm just doing a type set by monarch right now, but I may eventually expand that to shillings from around the rest of the world as well. We'll see. I'd love to see some of yours!

 

I started with a 1925 East Africa Shilling. After I got that I decided to get collect a George V Commonwealth shilling and shilling equivalent type set. It's probably been about 6 years in the making, and I'm still working on upgrades. Collecting the coins led me to Remick's book, The Guide Book and Catalogue of British Commonwealth Coins 1649-1971, and to reading up on the history of the Commonwealth. Fascinating stuff that.

[physics-fan3.14]

I need to find a good book that covers shillings. I would love a book all about shillings, but I would accept something that only has a section (if its a good, thorough, and complete one).

[RI AL]

Physics...

 

I found this listing at brooklyngallery.com:

 

2008 Spink's Coins of England and the United Kingdom, 43 edition. It has 1500 color photos, hardbound with 562 pages. Price listed is $45.10 plus shipping. It doesn't zero in on shillings specifically, but covers coins from the Celtic period to the present. I wonder if this book might be helpful?

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Yeah, Spinks is like the Redbook of Great Britain. I plan on getting that one, as it is the standard reference for UK coins.

[World Colonial]

Thanks, but I am clueless on how to upload pictures even though other forum members have explained this in the past.

 

Of at least the major commonwealth countries, I believe South Africa to be the scarcest and hardest to find, at least in high grade. But I believe that others such as Southern Rhodesia are also scarce.

 

I have not seen Remick's book, but it would be an excellent source. You could also check the Spink archives for a look at his collection which sold in December 2006. Some of his South Africa coins have been resold for much higher prices. I wish I had tried to buy some.

[shirohniichan]

Of at least the major commonwealth countries, I believe South Africa to be the scarcest and hardest to find, at least in high grade. But I believe that others such as Southern Rhodesia are also scarce.

 

I can't speak for all shilling types, but I know the hardest to find from George V's reign in decent grades are those from Cyprus and British Honduras.

[EZ_E]

I think that this is a very cool pursuit! Think about it, if you ever get a spot on "Jeopardy" then you'll have the king and queen list down pact! (thumbs u

 

p.s. Every single one of these coins have great eye-appeal! I'm very impressed! You see, it's hard to hang around these boards and not learn a thing or two.

[World Colonial]

I know nothing about these coins but if they are harder to find than the 1931 South Africa, then they must be impossible to find. I have seen exactly one 1931 in any grade (a VG) in a recent auction in the ten years I have been collecting this series.

 

The other SA dates are available but mostly in low mishandled grades. And for most dates, the survival rate in any higher grade is low.