1802 S-235 DBC Corroded (will NGC slab?)

[Toad]

Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb:

 

I have a 1802 Sheldon-235 Draped Bust Cent I would like to get slabbed and while I'm pretty certain NCS will slab it, I would also like to have it properly graded which NGC does, but my little copper gal has seen better days and I'm worried she's too corroded for NGC to allow her to reside in one of their slabs. So I figured I'd post it here to see if it can be determined by the pics, before I send her to NCS for conservation and onto NGC for grading. If NGC won't slab my little copper gal, then I'll have NCS slab it with "detail" grading and not bother asking to send it to NGC.

 

 

 

 

And this is what she looked like when she was found:

 

 

 

Ribbit

[Bruceswar]

This coin will not slab at PCGS or NGC.

[bsshog40]

I agree with Bruce. Most likely BB for environmental damage. Shame for such an old cent too.

[TomB]

NCS will slab it for you, but I do not believe they can do any conservation work on the coin since it appears that there is no longer any active corrosion on the coin.

[physics-fan3.14]

I seriously doubt NGC would slab that one. NCS will, though.

[MikeInFL]

I do not think that NGC will slab this coin. Of course, there's always NCS or ANACS -- or just leave it raw (as I would do). Respectfully....Mike

[James_OldeTowne]

VF-30 details, but with obvious environmental problems. I would put the EAC grade around VG-10. Popular for the obverse cud, of course.

[BillJones]

VF-30 details, but with obvious environmental problems. I would put the EAC grade around VG-10. Popular for the obverse cud, of course.

 

Sorry, James, but I've got to say this ...

 

Ahh... EAC grading.

 

The coin has at least Choice EF if not AU sharpness. If anyone will sell me early large cents graded VF with that much hair detail, I’ll become a large cent collector!

 

The surfaces are uniformly rough from corrosion that has been cleaned to remove it. As such, I think that the EAC grade would be Fine. The commercial grade would net somewhere in the VF-20 range and would be a “hard sell” because many copper collector prefer honest wear to environmental or physical damage. In any case neither PCGS nor NGC would grade this coin, and the coin does not need certification in any case.

 

The thing about EAC grading is that they do set the grades to very low, conservative levels. Despite that, the prices are often set at very high levels. Therefore when one is a dealer looking for coins for non EAC collectors, one has to often push the grade one notch to make the deal work. This not dishonesty; it’s just the nature of the market. The choice is you pay AU money for a coin graded EF, or you go beyond the EAC world and pay AU money for coin graded AU.

 

When it comes to buying coins, if the alligators don’t get you the mosquitoes will. That just another way of saying there is no numismatic Santa Claus.

 

 

[1798CentCollector-migratio]

Wow ! Too bad about this cent as the hair sharpness detail is all there.

 

I'd give the coin an AU sharpness grade, but net that to a VG 10 due to the severe surface problems and color - I other words I'd prefer a nice problem-free VG 10 to this problem AU coin. Maybe in-hand it's a bit better on the net grade. Neither TPG will slab this - ANACs will, with detials, and probably NCS. Visually, it would probably be best to leave the cent raw. Plastic doesn't enhance the visual appeal of copper and problem coins are moreso less appealing behind a plastic curtain. I'd wager this coin was lost early on in its post mint state life.

[MikeInFL]

Bill, In my opinion EAC doesn't grade "very low, conservative levels", they just grade differently. Interestingly enough, and as you point out, when it comes to buying/selling the prices are remarkably similar between TPG and EAC, despite the difference in grade...Mike

[BillJones]

Bill, In my opinion EAC doesn't grade "very low, conservative levels", they just grade differently. Interestingly enough, and as you point out, when it comes to buying/selling the prices are remarkably similar between TPG and EAC, despite the difference in grade...Mike

 

You need to get a copy of the EAC auction catalog and compare the coins and the amount of detail they have to the grades assigned. James' opening statement that this coin has VF sharpness is consistent with the description you will see in those catalogs.

 

So far as other aspects EAC grading, they make more sense than the grades and body bag policies that PCGS and NGC follow. Sometimes the slightest defect makes an early copper coin good only for a body bag, when in fact the coin could well be an outstanding example. EAC grading recognizes the warts, but gives the coin its due, which something the TPGs don’t do.

 

[CarolinaCollector]

I agree with BillJones that this coin has xf-45 to au sharpness. The hair is awesome. I think it's a nice cent even with the environmental damage.

[MikeInFL]

Bill, In my opinion EAC doesn't grade "very low, conservative levels", they just grade differently. Interestingly enough, and as you point out, when it comes to buying/selling the prices are remarkably similar between TPG and EAC, despite the difference in grade...Mike

 

You need to get a copy of the EAC auction catalog and compare the coins and the amount of detail they have to the grades assigned. James' opening statement that this coin has VF sharpness is consistent with the description you will see in those catalogs.

 

So far as other aspects EAC grading, they make more sense than the grades and body bag policies that PCGS and NGC follow. Sometimes the slightest defect makes an early copper coin good only for a body bag, when in fact the coin could well be an outstanding example. EAC grading recognizes the warts, but gives the coin its due, which something the TPGs don’t do.

 

Bill, The (apparent) shot to my knoweldge of EAC grading aside, I agree with all you wrote above. However, that doesn't change what I originally stated which, having re-read it, I stand behind. For instance, the TPGs view of problems is even more conservative than EAC -- thus my comments. Respectfully...Mike

[EZ_E]

Toad, excellent pictures, BTW!

 

If I were you, I'd carry the cent in your pocket for a few months (years) to even out some of the corrosion.

 

I see no merit in having NCS slab it.

 

Cool find. Did you find this in Little Rock? I didn't think LR's history went back that far.

[Bruceswar]

Victor the first images show the Ebay logo, which means it came off of ebay.

[EZ_E]

Victor the first images show the Ebay logo, which means it came off of ebay.

 

Good deduction there, Sherlock. (thumbs u

 

[wogger-migration]

ANACS will probably grade for you. NGC usually prefers to handle the cleaning of coins themselves through NCS.

[Hoot]

This is a coin that deserves a pocket for 2 or 3 years. I've had great success with old coppers that way.

 

Hoot