A Lesson Learned or Perhaps Just Sour Grapes?

[rbrown4]

The Situation:

 

I recently sold a "Cleaned/Dipped" coin to an individual where we were both upfront about the condition, price offered, etc.

 

We came to an agreement on payment method, etc. and the coin was shipped to the buyer. (at a nice price I might add)

 

I receive a notice from the buyer that they had inadvertantly not sent the payment to me although they had already received the coin.

 

They indicated they would mail the payment ASAP and I was OK with that.

 

I then determine that my coin that I sold to them is now on Ebay and was posted two days prior to them notifying me that they had neglected to send me payment.

 

I expressed my concern and am hoping for the best.

 

Upon further investigation on my part, it is apparent that the buyer is a "buyer/seller" and perhaps not a true collector, although I am not certain of that. A search of posts indicate such and that is what disturbs me.

 

I have always respected the folks in our forums and yes sometimes I have been negligent on expediant payment etc. but we have always been able to complete transactions without a hitch.

 

The lesson I have learned is that I will not attempt to deal with an individual that appears to me to be a "buyer/seller" as opposed to a true collector unless the situation warrants it and I am aware of it. Perhaps I am just venting, but after looking into this matter it really disturbed me. I have never experienced this with any other transaction in these forums.

 

No offense towards anyone is intended with this post. Hopefully we will all get through it, but I have learned a lesson.

 

Rey

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... You sent the buyer the coin without having the funds in hand first? Big mistake, I think. It would be one thing if it was a person who you knew, or someone who you had dealt with before, but a random eBay buyer? I would have waited until the money had cleared my bank account (or Paypal account) to ship.

[rbrown4]

Being a fellow Forum member and not an EBAY buyer, with numerous posts I did not see a potential problem. I have experienced this trust factor throughout these forums. Unfortunately like I said upon further examination, it appears this one is not a collector but a buyer/seller. My mistake.

 

Rey

[Jeffrey Cardona]

HUGE, HUGE, MISTAKE!!! Never ever send product, no matter what you sell, without getting money in hand first!!

[MunkyMan95]

Being a fellow Forum member and not an EBAY buyer, with numerous posts I did not see a potential problem. I have experienced this trust factor throughout these forums. Unfortunately like I said upon further examination, it appears this one is not a collector but a buyer/seller. My mistake.

 

Rey

Sorry, must have misread your post. Still, I would not send the merchandise until payment was recieved.

[MarkFeld]

Rey, sorry about your situation. However, unless the buyer misrepresented himself as a collector and/or his plans with the coin in some way, I wouldn't be too upset about that aspect of it.

 

I sold a great looking toned Morgan Dollar to a collector last year, and he ended up selling it on Ebay fairly quickly afterwards. I was sorry that I hadn't ended up placing the coin with a collector who really appreciated it, but I got what I thought was a fair price and hadn't been lied to, so had no real complaint.

[ant]

ok , i guess i have to post since i just responded to PM.

 

as we know i have had alot going on (not an exuse). i had made a deal to send off money order, i spaced it. i listed items in hopes of makeing some extra money to help family. as i was searching pms i noticed this transaction didnt look final, being i always put a dc# or PP transaction number for both parties to see. i contacted rbrown4 and opologized for the mess up and even went and got money order this morning as i said i would. i got home too late to send today so i am sending tomarrow.

this is not intentional

 

 

[123cents]

Sorry to hear this Rey. As said always get the money first whether it is from a buyer/seller, collector or whatever.

[supertooth]

Rey----- Ever since I first talked to you, I figured you for an honest guy. Unfortunately, an awful lot of folks today do NOT fall into this same category.

 

Would always advise one to tell the truth---sell the coin honestly----but receive your money in hand first---check clears---then coin is shipped. This way the transaction remains a totally OK business relationship. Not too much of any chance of a foulup that way. And, everybody stays friends that way too. Bob [supertooth]

[MunkyMan95]

I can vouch for ant, he can be a little slow at times, but he always makes good on his transactions. This'll work out for you just fine, Rey.

[kryptonitecomics]

I always sell coins for a price I can live with.....this includes coins on Ebay and I have many.....ahem dealers/flippers purchasing my coins to turn around to resell with worse pictures or pictures that have been severly juiced. I would prefer my coins to go to collectors but frankly....once the sale is complete....I don;t concern myself with what the buyer does.

 

Yours is a bit of a different matter...you weren't paid and the item was already up on Ebay. I don't think this was intential....but it would leave a bad taste in my mouth especially if I cut a member a really good deal so he could add a coin to his collection and he flipped it.

 

Personally I would just avoid future dealings with this individual and leave it at that.

[harvey8542]

I can vouch for ant, he can be a little slow at times, but he always makes good on his transactions. This'll work out for you just fine, Rey.

 

+1 (thumbs u

[Coin]

Ant , you nut , Prioritize ! Make yourself a 'to do' list and you won't forget stuff like this .

 

Life comes at you fast and with everything you have going on (from what I gather from reading your posts) you're a busy fellow . If you say the 'check's in the mail' it probably is , but please consider that although this is only a chat board , we still think of it as a little micro-community and hope that 'trust' doesn't come into question ....as Chad has willingly vouched for you , he is also putting his name on the line .

Maybe Rey should have given an earlier 'heads-up' notice , but it was your responsibility to complete your end of the transaction in a timely manner and I'm only suggesting that a 'to-do' list or something where you could have prioritized your tasks , could help in the future.

 

I've screwed up before to when I thought something was handled and was not , so I applaud your coming out and handling this matter right away , which shows that you have character .....but you still get a mud-pie on this one until Rey says your clear .

[TomB]

Although it is inconvenient to wait for funds that you expected were already sent, I don't think there is any other harm in this situation on the part of either the buyer or the seller. If you sell a coin to someone without a prior understanding or agreement as to its future ownership then I do not think you can be too hard on that buyer for their subsequent reasonable actions regarding the coin.

[jesbroken]

Rey,

I understand where you are coming from. We have several very honest people on this board who have sent coins without payment first and have suffered some injury(small or large) for this act. Unfortunately, all are not so honest and as a seller you must protect yourself, first and foremost. I think Anthony will make good and all will out-so to speak.

But, I do take issue with your concern with what was done with the coin you sold. If I buy something from anyone at fair market price then I'll do with it as I please. If I were stupid enough to buy it with stipulations that I could not resell it, it would not be at fair market price but well below. A seller does not inherently have the right to place rules regarding the future of the item they sell. That is the purpose of buying rather than leasing/renting, in order to have control and any future profit from growth. It's not like giving a coin to someone as a gift with restrictions. I truly do not see the issue here as to post sale activities.

Just my opinion.

Jim

[EZ_E]

I am the king of procrastinators, yet, I never let that interfere with business. I always make a very prompt payment or send out an item just as quickly. I do care about my reputation and I do try to live by the golden rule above any quarks of my personality.

[TomB]

I am the king of procrastinators, yet, I never let that interfere with business. I always make a very prompt payment or send out an item just as quickly. I do care about my reputation and I do try to live by the golden rule above any quarks of my personality.

Quarks?!?!?!?! I guess you take that role of nuclear tech pretty seriously, eh?

[physics-fan3.14]

I am the king of procrastinators, yet, I never let that interfere with business. I always make a very prompt payment or send out an item just as quickly. I do care about my reputation and I do try to live by the golden rule above any quarks of my personality.

Quarks?!?!?!?! I guess you take that role of nuclear tech pretty seriously, eh?

 

Hey, a couple of physics jokes never hurt anybody!

[Oldtrader3]

Rey, I hope that Ant makes good on his promise and you get your money soon! It is easy to take people on this site at their word, even when they mean well, but do not live up to their agreed upon terms of the sale. Further, it makes you feel even worse when they turn around and sell the coin before they have paid for it. I sincerely hope that this situation works out well for you.

[ant]

thanks all for kind words. i can understand fully where rbrown would be upset. if i had paid and such on time then it would be done . but my being WAY late with payment would upset me also. it was wrong for me to list without being paid up

 

i feel every bit of concern rbrown has spoken to. this was my bad and am rectifying it as fast as i can. im sorry for the inconveniounce (bad spelling). will PM the DC# in morning

[WoodenJefferson]

Rey, I can fully understand your angst (I do not have flavored quarks or red sprites) in a transaction where you see the very coin you are waiting for payment on appears on e-bay. All sorts of ideas begin to form after thinking your going to have to wait on payment until the buyer sells the coin on e-bay, then have to wait until the e-bay buyer pays for the coin and so on, gee whiz.

 

Also, there is nothing wrong with waiting for payment from any buyer, especially family () before sending a coin/coins or anything else for that matter, it’s just a sound business practice.

 

Glad you pointed this out for others to learn from, including yourself…I know I sometimes forget things, no excuses, but learning can sometimes hurt, both for the seller and the buyer.

 

~Woody~

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

This is an interesting thread on several levels. The on that that interests me most at the moment is the issue of selling a coin to a "collector" vs. "buyer/seller". While it would seem preferable to deal only with collectors, the fact of the matter is that I have sold so many coins to so many people whose only interest was to "flip" it that I can't count the times. At first, it bugged me a little, especially seeing the "flip" earn my customer a profit, but over the years, I've realized that it is none of my business. Once title passes, so to speak, the coin is out of my hands, and I have no say or control over how it is subsequently handled.

 

Quick story: at a St. Louis show last year, a fellow spent quite a bit of time talking me into selling him the nicest bust half (uncertified) in my case. Now, I know for a fact that he is 95% collector, but like any collector, does the occasional sale or flip to make a little side money to finance his habit (or addiction, if you prefer ). So, he finally talked me down to my rock bottom price, saying how it was the nicest example he'd seen in awhile, and how he just had to have it. He paid me cash for it - $1700 to be exact. Not ten minutes later, he was back at my table, grinning like a Cheshire cat. He pointed to a dealer across the bourse, and said, "See that guy there? I just made fifty bucks off your coin!".

 

How about that?? After all the arguing back and forth about how he must "own" the coin, he had it for less than ten minutes - all for a measly $50!

 

Here's the kicker: two months later, I saw my exact same coin in a national ad, only now, it was overgraded in a PCGS holder, ten points higher than my grade - and $1100 higher than what I'd sold it for. I called the seller, and guess what? He'd already sold it.

 

I don't know if there's a lesson here, but I still sell coins to "the flipper". After all, as soon as he owned that coin, it was his to do with as he pleased. But the fact is, we both screwed up on what the coin was worth....

[kryptonitecomics]

I one sold a Proof Lincoln with nice toning to Russ ATS for double what I paid....or $60 bucks.....he turned around and sold it on Ebay for $200.....I was certainly mad at myself for not listing it on Ebay first

[MarkFeld]

This is an interesting thread on several levels. The on that that interests me most at the moment is the issue of selling a coin to a "collector" vs. "buyer/seller". While it would seem preferable to deal only with collectors, the fact of the matter is that I have sold so many coins to so many people whose only interest was to "flip" it that I can't count the times. At first, it bugged me a little, especially seeing the "flip" earn my customer a profit, but over the years, I've realized that it is none of my business. Once title passes, so to speak, the coin is out of my hands, and I have no say or control over how it is subsequently handled.

 

Quick story: at a St. Louis show last year, a fellow spent quite a bit of time talking me into selling him the nicest bust half (uncertified) in my case. Now, I know for a fact that he is 95% collector, but like any collector, does the occasional sale or flip to make a little side money to finance his habit (or addiction, if you prefer ). So, he finally talked me down to my rock bottom price, saying how it was the nicest example he'd seen in awhile, and how he just had to have it. He paid me cash for it - $1700 to be exact. Not ten minutes later, he was back at my table, grinning like a Cheshire cat. He pointed to a dealer across the bourse, and said, "See that guy there? I just made fifty bucks off your coin!".

 

How about that?? After all the arguing back and forth about how he must "own" the coin, he had it for less than ten minutes - all for a measly $50!

 

Here's the kicker: two months later, I saw my exact same coin in a national ad, only now, it was overgraded in a PCGS holder, ten points higher than my grade - and $1100 higher than what I'd sold it for. I called the seller, and guess what? He'd already sold it.

 

I don't know if there's a lesson here, but I still sell coins to "the flipper". After all, as soon as he owned that coin, it was his to do with as he pleased. But the fact is, we both screwed up on what the coin was worth....

James, in your example, it sounds as if the buyer did misrepresent his intentions, at least to some extent, and in order to save money. That, I do have a problem with. In Rey's case, I don't see any indication that Ant did the same.

 

Edited to add: The guy who bought the coin from you was an and an insufficiently_thoughtful_person for bragging about his $50 profit afterwards. I would never forget that, even though it wouldn't bother me in the least if someone who had behaved better made a much larger profit off of a coin I sold.

[cpm9ball]

This is an interesting thread on several levels. The on that that interests me most at the moment is the issue of selling a coin to a "collector" vs. "buyer/seller". While it would seem preferable to deal only with collectors, the fact of the matter is that I have sold so many coins to so many people whose only interest was to "flip" it that I can't count the times. At first, it bugged me a little, especially seeing the "flip" earn my customer a profit, but over the years, I've realized that it is none of my business. Once title passes, so to speak, the coin is out of my hands, and I have no say or control over how it is subsequently handled.

 

Quick story: at a St. Louis show last year, a fellow spent quite a bit of time talking me into selling him the nicest bust half (uncertified) in my case. Now, I know for a fact that he is 95% collector, but like any collector, does the occasional sale or flip to make a little side money to finance his habit (or addiction, if you prefer ). So, he finally talked me down to my rock bottom price, saying how it was the nicest example he'd seen in awhile, and how he just had to have it. He paid me cash for it - $1700 to be exact. Not ten minutes later, he was back at my table, grinning like a Cheshire cat. He pointed to a dealer across the bourse, and said, "See that guy there? I just made fifty bucks off your coin!".

 

How about that?? After all the arguing back and forth about how he must "own" the coin, he had it for less than ten minutes - all for a measly $50!

 

Here's the kicker: two months later, I saw my exact same coin in a national ad, only now, it was overgraded in a PCGS holder, ten points higher than my grade - and $1100 higher than what I'd sold it for. I called the seller, and guess what? He'd already sold it.

 

I don't know if there's a lesson here, but I still sell coins to "the flipper". After all, as soon as he owned that coin, it was his to do with as he pleased. But the fact is, we both screwed up on what the coin was worth....

James, in your example, it sounds as if the buyer did misrepresent his intentions, at least to some extent, and in order to save money. That, I do have a problem with. In Rey's case, I don't see any indication that Ant did the same.

 

Edited to add: The guy who bought the coin from you was an and an insufficiently_thoughtful_person for bragging about his $50 profit afterwards. I would never forget that, even though it wouldn't bother me in the least if someone who had behaved better made a much larger profit off of a coin I sold.

 

I wonder if any dealer has ever sold a coin at a show only to have the buyer return and give the dealer a "kickback" on a quick profit?

 

As for me, I never look to buy any coin only to flip it immediately. I've had offers made on numerous occasions, but I buy them for myself and not for the profit.

 

Chris

[Dcoin]

Maybe I shouldn't ask this but....

 

Was there any reason to mention that the coin was cleaned?

Did the ebay auction indicate as such?

[Revenant]

Guys, what Rey did with sending out the coin before receiving payment is not a bad thing. It's a trusting thing. Ant did the same thing for me not too long ago for different reasons. He just told me to pay for it when it arrived, which I did... I then got an e-mail asking why I was paying him. You're an okay guy, Ant. Just try to keep track of transactions better.

[ant]

Maybe I shouldn't ask this but....

 

Was there any reason to mention that the coin was cleaned?

Did the ebay auction indicate as such?

 

rey sold me the coin as cleaned and i had listed the coin as cleaned i aslo pulled it when he mentioned it wasnt right. and he is correct

 

money order+opology sent

 

 

[ant]

Guys, what Rey did with sending out the coin before receiving payment is not a bad thing. It's a trusting thing. Ant did the same thing for me not too long ago for different reasons. He just told me to pay for it when it arrived, which I did... I then got an e-mail asking why I was paying him. You're an okay guy, Ant. Just try to keep track of transactions better.

 

thank you! and you are correct. i do need to get a good system going to keep track of all listings but alot lately has been in a flash cause of family health. and my mind is flying around everywhere.

 

i will work on that for sure.

[bsshog40]

Ant has done me good also Rey. May have been a little mis-communication or no reason to express his ideas at all if there were no reason to. It sounds all good. We know ant's trying to make some extra money for his family. I'm sure that no harm at all was meant.