On Commemorative Coins Next Year - Boy Scouts

[astrostu]

Article Here ... and quoted below:

 

Alright, it isn’t actually a bake sale, but it might as well be. On May 15, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 5872, an act “To require the Secretary of the Treasury to mint coins in commemoration of the centennial of the Boy Scouts of America, and for other purposes.” The other purposes? The sale of the coins by the Secretary of the Treasury, with a surcharge on each coin sold to “be paid to the National Boy Scouts of America Foundation.” In other words, this is a congressionally mandated fundraiser for the Boy Scouts.

 

With the act allowing for up to 350,000 of this coin to be issued and fixing the surcharge at $10 per coin, the Boy Scouts could receive as much as $3.5 million from their sale. Never before, in the long history of U.S. government issued commemorative coins, has this benefit been granted to an organization that promotes religion or discriminates based on religion.

 

What is a Commemorative Coin and How Does the Program Work?

 

A 1996 U.S. Mint report titled “Commemorative Coins Could Be More Profitable,” described the issuance of commemorative coins as follows: “Every commemorative coin program is authorized by an act of Congress. Congress authorizes commemorative coins primarily as a means of honoring certain events and individuals and raising funds for the coins’ sponsors. On occasion, the proceeds from commemorative coin sales are applied to the national debt. Commemorative coins are legal tender but are purchased and retained by collectors, rather than used as a circulating medium of exchange.”

 

The first commemorative coin, authorized by Congress in 1892, was the Columbian Exposition silver half dollar, commemorating Columbus’s first voyage to the new world. These coins, priced at twice their face value, did not sell well, and many of them ended up being put into circulation by the banks that held them as collateral against unpaid loans taken out by the Exposition. Over fifty other commemorative coin programs were authorized between 1892 and 1951, and for the first few decades they were all to recognize anniversaries of major historical events or to raise money for legitimate memorial projects. But, of course, any program where money is involved is subject to abuse

 

By the 1920s things were already getting out of control. At that time, coins issued to fund a particular project were simply minted and then sold by the government to the recipient organization, which would then resell them for a profit, with the selling price set by the organization. This led to a flood of coins commemorating events that were only of local rather than national interest, organizations charging exorbitant prices for their coins, and even instances of coin dealers fabricating anniversaries to obtain a product to sell. In 1936, for example, a group of Ohio coin dealers formed the “Cincinnati Music Center Commemorative Coin Association” and applied to have a coin issued commemorating Cincinnati’s “contribution to the art of music for the past 50 years.” This coin was authorized by Congress despite the fact that the Commission of Fine Arts found that nothing of musical significance had occurred in Cincinnati in 1886 to make 1936 a 50th anniversary of anything. In 1939, Congress passed legislation severely limiting commemorative coins, and following the issue of the George Washington Carver - Booker T. Washington half dollar, which was sold from 1951 to 1954, the program was suspended for nearly three decades.

 

The program was revived in 1981 with the authorization of a George Washington 250th Anniversary half dollar to be issued in 1982, the profits from which were applied to the national debt. By 1984, Congress was once again authorizing coins to raise funds for private organizations, but new legislation required that the coins be sold directly to the public by the U.S. Mint, with a fixed surcharge to be paid to the recipient organization. The minting of many of these coins resulted in a loss to the government, although the sponsoring organizations always made a profit. The problem was that the organization received its surcharge beginning with the very first coin sold, before the mint had recovered its set-up and other costs. If a coin sold so poorly that its sales didn’t cover these costs, it was the government that took the hit. On the 1994 World Cup Tournament coins, for example, the government lost over $4 million, while the sponsor received over $9 million. Current law requires that the mint ensure that it will not lose any money before transferring any surcharges to the recipient organization, and limits commemorative coin programs to two per year.

 

The Unconstitutionality of Issuing a Commemorative Coin for the Boy Scouts

 

This should be obvious, but apparently it isn’t to the overwhelming majority in our House of Representatives, who just passed H.R. 5872 by a vote of 403 to 8. (Kudos to Tammy Baldwin (D-WI), Barney Frank (D-MA), Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), Barbara Lee (D-CA), Jim McDermott (D-WA), Pete Stark (D-CA), and Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) — the eight who voted no.)

 

While much has been written about the disputes and court cases resulting from establishment clause issues raised by government support of the Boy Scouts, the organization’s actual statements and policies are usually only vaguely described or briefly quoted. To leave no doubt as to why Congress, without question, should be prohibited from passing legislation to raise money for this organization, here are some of the statements and policies from official Boy Scout publications and websites.

 

First, there’s the “Declaration of Religious Principle,” found in the organization’s bylaws. This declaration must be subscribed to by every member of the Boy Scouts, from the youngest scout to the adult leaders, volunteers, and employees.

 

Declaration of Religious Principle:

 

“The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.”

 

Then there are the policies governing volunteers and employees.

 

Youth and Adult Volunteers:

 

“Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Accordingly, youth members and adult volunteer leaders of Boy Scouts of America obligate themselves to do their duty to God and be reverent as embodied in the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Leaders also must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting’s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as members or adult volunteer leaders.”

 

Employment:

 

“With respect to positions limited to professional Scouters or, because of their close relationship to the mission of Scouting, positions limited to registered members of the Boy Scouts of America, acceptance of the Declaration of Religious Principle, the Scout Oath, and the Scout Law is required. Accordingly, in the exercise of their constitutional right to bring the values of Scouting to youth members, the Boy Scouts of America will not employ atheists, agnostics, known or avowed homosexuals, or others as professional Scouters or in other capacities in which such employment would tend to interfere with the mission of reinforcing the values of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law in young people.”

 

And, according to BSALegal.org, a website “created on behalf of the Boy Scouts of America to inform the public about the legal issues that confront Scouting,” religious beliefs and activities are required for every level of advancement from Cub Scouts through Eagle Scouts.

 

“All levels of advancement in the Scouting program have requirements recognizing ‘duty to God’:

 

Bobcat Cub Scout

“A boy is required to promise to do his best to do his ‘duty to God,’ which means ‘Put God first. Do what you know God wants you to do.’

 

Wolf Cub Scout

“A boy is required to ‘[t]alk with your folks about what they believe is their duty to God,’ ‘[g]ive some ideas on how you can practice or demonstrate your religious beliefs,’ and ‘[f]ind out how you can help your church, synagogue, or religious fellowship.’

 

Bear Cub Scout

“A boy is required to ‘[p]ractice your religion as you are taught in your home, church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious community’ or ‘[e]arn the religious emblem of your faith.’

 

Webelos Scout

“A boy is required to either ‘[e]arn the religious emblem of your faith’ or do two of the following:

 

“’Attend the church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs, and tell your family and Webelos den leader about what you learned.’;

 

“’Tell how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath and Scout Law, Discuss this with your family and Webelos den leader: What character-building traits do your beliefs and the Scout Oath and Scout Law have in common?’;

 

“’With your religious leader, discuss and write down two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things.’;

 

“’Pray to God or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, synagogue, or religious group. Do this for at least one month.’;

 

“’Under the direction of your religious leader, do an act of service for someone else. Talk about your service with your family and Webelos den leader. Tell them how it made you feel.’; or

 

“’List at least two ways you believe you have lived according to your religious beliefs.’

 

First Class Boy Scout

“A boy is required to ‘[l]ead your patrol in saying grace at the meals …’

 

Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle Boy Scouts

“A boy is required to ‘[d]emonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath … and Scout Law in your everyday life.’”

 

On the FAQ page of BSALegal.org, the discriminatory policies of the Boy Scouts are defended through questions and answers like the following.

 

“Q. What allows the Boy Scouts of America to exclude atheists and agnostics from membership?

 

“A. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership group. As with any private organization, Boy Scouts’ retains the constitutional right to establish and maintain standards for membership. Anyone who supports the values of Scouting and meets these standards is welcome to join the organization.”

 

This is absolutely correct. A private organization can have whatever beliefs and religious requirements it chooses to. That’s their constitutional right. But Congress can absolutely not financially aid the Boy Scouts in the promotion of their beliefs and enforcement of their religious requirements by legislating a fundraiser for them!

 

Definitely a commemorative I won't be buying.

[physics-fan3.14]

Well, I agree with all that stuff about God, so that doesn't bother me. However, I could care less about the Boy Scouts or buying a coin about them. That's the reason I won't buy one.

[EZ_E]

Definitely a commemorative I won't be buying.

 

Good luck blazing your path on your own, youngster, without a belief in a Being higher than yourself. Your loss.

 

Einstein once asked his class, "How much total knowledge do we have of all that there is?"

 

Different answers rung out, "5%, 3%, 10%, etc."

 

He then asked, "What are the odds that God does exist in that 90% of knowledge that we do not know?"

 

If anyone declares that there is no God then they are saying that they know all which makes them God.

 

Are you god, astrostu?

[astrostu]

If anyone declares that there is no God then they are saying that they know all which makes them God.

 

Are you god, astrostu?

 

I didn't say anything about not believing in a higher power. I simply said I won't be buying the coin. I don't like the Boy Scouts for their discriminatory policies - not just religion, but also homosexuality - and I also don't think they're something worth commemorating in a federally issued coin.

 

I also have very few commemoratives as it is - just those that actually mean something to me. I have the 1987 constitution bicentennial, 2000 Library of Congress bicentennial (I worked in a library for 2 years), the clad and silver First Flight centennial (since I'm an astronomer), the Edison coin, San Fran. mint coins, and bald eagle ones.

 

So don't jump to conclusions about me being arrogant, claiming I'm a god.

[EZ_E]

You're right, my bad. I misunderstood ya.

[DC Dawg]

I didn't say anything about not believing in a higher power. I simply said I won't be buying the coin. I don't like the Boy Scouts for their discriminatory policies - not just religion, but also homosexuality - and I also don't think they're something worth commemorating in a federally issued coin.

I had someone write something similar to me after I wrote about the bill on my blog. I am not sure how I feel about this as an issue since there are so many other things I am worried about. I know my experiences with Scouting is does not include discrimination--or at least it was well hidden from me. But I know I left the Boy Scouts one activity short of earning my Star rank (I think that was back in 1973 or 74) because I did not like the new Scoutmaster.

 

If the bill passes the Senate and is signed by the president, I will probably not buy the coin anyway. I do not generally collect commemorative coins. But I can see why others would refuse to buy for the reasons astrostu mentioned above.

 

As an aside, Scouting started in England in 1907. Last year, the Royal Mint produced a 50 pence commemorative that I thought was well executed. Maybe dooly can tell us if there was a similar controversy on his side of the pond!

 

 

Scott

[Jeffrey Cardona]

I enjoyed my time in the scouts and I don't recall any religious aspects brought up during my time with them...it was a while ago..in the 70s...things could have changed.

 

Anyways... I will buy the coin...worrying about the rest of the stuff is way off the radar for me.

[CHABSENTIA]

I see the article as contradictory. One sentence mentions that the Program is promoting Religion and discriminating on the basis of Religion. Therefore the article starts out by being biased. Later it talks about observing Religion at home, church ,synagogue or mosque.

 

 

Therefor e the Boy Scouts are not discriminating against any one Religion at the expense of others. It approves of all Religions which is not discriminatory. Look up the word Discrimination. The Boy Scouts even go further by stating "as it is taught at home". This could cover everything else including the Agnostic View etc.

 

Various other parts of this article can be taken apart and be seen as ambiguous in the article. It is obviuosly a bias and prejudiced article from the start of it and the tone of the article throughout suggests the bias against it.

 

What is the definition of a Coin Collector? Do people now decide whether they will purchase a coin based on the Organization instead of the Merits of the Coin itself. If a Person doesn't like Sports then they shouldn't buy any of the Olympics series? We alreadyhave Politics in the Olympics when people are protesting the Olympics because they don't like certain actions of China where it is being hosted.

 

This article is bringing Politics into the subject of Coin Collecting.I question whether some are using these Forums for Political reasons rather then Coin collecting.

 

Perhaps NGC can comment on the issue.

[CHABSENTIA]

The article is obviuosly Discrimatory and as I demonstrated earlier the facts are quite the opposite . The Boy Scouts are not demanding that anyobody practice a certain Religion. If they did then they would be advocating only one Religion such as the Christian Religion. Their articles specifically names the many diverse Religions and even states "as it is taught at home". which is even broader.

 

Not only have you published a Discrimatory article but you even mention that you have very few Commemoratives etc.

 

It seems to me that you are using this Forum as advocating certain personal Policies and even going further by advocating that people not purchase the Commemorative based on those personal views.

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

I have a problem with the article.As you stated and I have stated previuosly "The Boy Scouts are not Discrimatory". The article obviuosly has this tone and the purpose of posting it is obvious which can be seen by the personal views of the poster.

 

Coins should be purchased on the Merits of the Coin/s and the enjoyment of the Purchaser. If they don't enjoy it for whatever reason then they shouldn't purchase it.

 

Apparently the poster can't interpret the article as he quotes the article and then talks about their Religious Discrimiantory policies which is not the case as I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

 

 

 

 

[EZ_E]

Various other parts of this article can be taken apart and be seen as ambiguous in the article. It is obviuosly a bias and prejudiced article from the start of it and the tone of the article throughout suggests the bias against it.

 

Yeah, that's what lit a fire under my shorts.

 

And, since I have a complete set to date, yeah, I'll be buying both finishes.

[astrostu]

The article is obviuosly Discrimatory and as I demonstrated earlier the facts are quite the opposite . The Boy Scouts are not demanding that anyobody practice a certain Religion. If they did then they would be advocating only one Religion such as the Christian Religion. Their articles specifically names the many diverse Religions and even states "as it is taught at home". which is even broader.

 

Not only have you published a Discrimatory article but you even mention that you have very few Commemoratives etc.

 

It seems to me that you are using this Forum as advocating certain personal Policies and even going further by advocating that people not purchase the Commemorative based on those personal views.

 

I have a problem with the article.As you stated and I have stated previuosly "The Boy Scouts are not Discrimatory". The article obviuosly has this tone and the purpose of posting it is obvious which can be seen by the personal views of the poster.

 

Coins should be purchased on the Merits of the Coin/s and the enjoyment of the Purchaser. If they don't enjoy it for whatever reason then they shouldn't purchase it.

 

Apparently the poster can't interpret the article as he quotes the article and then talks about their Religious Discrimiantory policies which is not the case as I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

 

You're reading way too far into my post and my own personal beliefs. I found the article in a list of coin-related news on the website coinflation.com. Yes, the article is biased as you can tell simply from the website it's on. I posted it for the purpose of mentioning one of the commemorative coins next year. My understanding is that it's illegal when quoting articles, generally, to only quote part of it, which is why I posted the entire thing.

 

If you look at other posts of mine where I post coin-related news (which admittedly are few because Scott often beats me), it doesn't always impact me because I don't necessarily collect those coins. Again, I posted this for the sake of letting people know of a commemorative coin that will likely be available next year. I am not advocating certain personal policies nor am I telling people that they should or should not purchase that coin. Again, often on threads where a new thing is announced (e.g., last year with the Presidential Proof sets, or this year with the 2009 St. Gaudens $20), there are dozens of people who chime in the post simply saying, "Eeww, ugly, no buy," or "Woo-hoo! I can't wait!" (or derivations there-of. Hence, my comment was in-line with those on numerous other posts.

 

As to whether the Boy Scouts discriminate on the basis of religion, they do. You must believe in a god, gods, or higher power to be in the Boy Scouts. As to whether they discriminate against other things, they do. Just look at the court cases of them fighting for the right to discriminate against people based solely upon their sexuality. The only reason that I brought up their discriminatory policies is because EZ_E made the comment that it seemed as though I was saying I knew as much as a deity.

 

So as I said, I personally have few commemoratives, the Boy Scouts don't hold a place near-and-dear to my heart - both because I was actually in cub scouts and really didn't like it so quit after a year, and because of many of their policies - so I won't be buying this coin. But others may appreciate the advance notice which is why I posted.

 

So, to re-cap:

 

(1) I posted this article as an interest piece for notification of a coin that will probably be minted next year.

 

(2) Yes, the article is biased, that's plainly obvious.

 

(3) I mentioned I won't be buying this coin, and that's for my own reasons and by stating my own opinions I am not advocating for nor against you purchasing the coin for yourself.

 

If people still feel the need to bash me over posting this article, you need to get a life. And you need to read some of the other threads that have degenerated into conservative rhetoric without anyone crying foul.

[pendragon1998]

I like the Boy Scouts a lot more than I like the government.

[Glossy]

OP, POS!!!

[zrlevin]

 

You're reading way too far into my post and my own personal beliefs. I found the article in a list of coin-related news on the website coinflation.com. Yes, the article is biased as you can tell simply from the website it's on. I posted it for the purpose of mentioning one of the commemorative coins next year. My understanding is that it's illegal when quoting articles, generally, to only quote part of it, which is why I posted the entire thing.

 

If you look at other posts of mine where I post coin-related news (which admittedly are few because Scott often beats me), it doesn't always impact me because I don't necessarily collect those coins. Again, I posted this for the sake of letting people know of a commemorative coin that will likely be available next year. I am not advocating certain personal policies nor am I telling people that they should or should not purchase that coin. Again, often on threads where a new thing is announced (e.g., last year with the Presidential Proof sets, or this year with the 2009 St. Gaudens $20), there are dozens of people who chime in the post simply saying, "Eeww, ugly, no buy," or "Woo-hoo! I can't wait!" (or derivations there-of. Hence, my comment was in-line with those on numerous other posts.

 

As to whether the Boy Scouts discriminate on the basis of religion, they do. You must believe in a god, gods, or higher power to be in the Boy Scouts. As to whether they discriminate against other things, they do. Just look at the court cases of them fighting for the right to discriminate against people based solely upon their sexuality. The only reason that I brought up their discriminatory policies is because EZ_E made the comment that it seemed as though I was saying I knew as much as a deity.

 

So as I said, I personally have few commemoratives, the Boy Scouts don't hold a place near-and-dear to my heart - both because I was actually in cub scouts and really didn't like it so quit after a year, and because of many of their policies - so I won't be buying this coin. But others may appreciate the advance notice which is why I posted.

 

So, to re-cap:

 

(1) I posted this article as an interest piece for notification of a coin that will probably be minted next year.

 

(2) Yes, the article is biased, that's plainly obvious.

 

(3) I mentioned I won't be buying this coin, and that's for my own reasons and by stating my own opinions I am not advocating for nor against you purchasing the coin for yourself.

 

If people still feel the need to bash me over posting this article, you need to get a life. And you need to read some of the other threads that have degenerated into conservative rhetoric without anyone crying foul.

 

 

(thumbs u

[Glossy]

There is only one reason why you posted this article..... congrats you got what you wanted.

[astrostu]

There is only one reason why you posted this article..... congrats you got what you wanted.

 

Um, no. I already said why I posted it. It was the first and only article I'd seen on the coin. Period. And I didn't get what I wanted - I thought there might actually be an intelligent discussion about commemorative coins, but instead I'm just getting attacked by about half the posts on this thread.

[CHABSENTIA]

Nonsense. If this was true then you would have just posted the H.R. Bill itself and not the article about it.You admit it was a biased article and not only posted the article but added your own comments about why you wouldn't buy the coin. Not only is the article biased but it is erroneous and contradictory.

 

You are either very Naive or you deliberatley posted it.

 

Most people will buy a coin because they enjoy it or to complete a Registry set or numerous other reasons. A coin collector will not disregard a coin because of an erroneous article etc.

[CHABSENTIA]

You are getting "attacked" as you put it because you not only posted a biased and erroneous article. It is bad enough to post a biased article but to post a biased article that is incorrect and tries to support its bias by making incorrect statements is absurd.

 

If you wanted to have a discusssion about Commemoratives then you would have talked about such things as the Merits of Modern Day Commemoratives as opposed to the Commemoratives circa 1936 etc or the merits of each coin such as Design, grading etc.

 

Instead you posted a biased and incorrect article and your personal belief that you wouldn't buy the coin.

[Jeffrey Cardona]

I understand law states 2 commemoratives a year. Besides the Boy Scout coin, what is the other coin? Is it the penny?

[Zoins]

I wonder if getting one of these coins will be a new requirement to get the coin collecting merit badge?

[RWB]

Hey! What happened to "Lion"? Used to be Wolf, Bear, Lion for us Cub Scouts. We never had to do any religious stuff except eat chocolate cup cakes.

[Zoins]

We never had to do any religious stuff

Perhaps in the past, many troops did not live up to certain expectations?

[astrostu]

I understand law states 2 commemoratives a year. Besides the Boy Scout coin, what is the other coin? Is it the penny?

 

My understanding is that the law is now there can't be MORE THAN 2 commemorative "sets" a year. Like this year, we just have the Bald Eagles (1 commemoration) but 3 different types of coins with them. This seems to be a rare year, though, 'cause I think it's been 2 for the past several years (like 2007 had both Jamestown 400th Anniversary (2 coins, silver and gold), and Little Rock Desegregation (1 coin, silver)).

 

I haven't heard anything about a second commemorative for next year, but I think Scott would be the one to ask.

[EZ_E]

Yet, there's still room to wiggle out of the 2 per year limit. Remember that they minted two different Franklin Commems (scientist & statesman) and still came out with the San Francisco Mint Commems later the same year.

[richbeat]

Hey! What happened to "Lion"? Used to be Wolf, Bear, Lion for us Cub Scouts. We never had to do any religious stuff except eat chocolate cup cakes.

 

 

Webelos replaced lions in 1967 or 1968, I think.

[DC Dawg]

I tried to stay out of this fray because there are two topics that you are not supposed to talk about in polite company: politics and religion. However, there is one thing I want to address:

 

This article is bringing Politics into the subject of Coin Collecting.I question whether some are using these Forums for Political reasons rather then Coin collecting.

 

Perhaps NGC can comment on the issue.

When the design and authorization of commemorative coinage is prescribed by law and requires the voting of a legislative body and the approval of the executive body, then politics are very much part of coin collecting. Politics are why there are so many nineteenth century patterns in existence and politics is firmly planted behind the stories of the GSA Morgan Dollars, coin composition, and the 1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles.

 

Scott

[Conder101]

Chabsentia seems to be very threatened by this subject for some reason.

 

While I will agree the article is biased, I do not see it as being inaccurate. The BSA is a discriminatory organization, but being a private organization they can be. But as such they should not receive Federal funding or, in my opinion, the surcharges for a Federally authorized commemorative coin.

 

The "Other" Commemorative for next year is the Lincoln Bi centennial Dollar which has already been approved.

 

The law mandates no more that two commemorative coin programs per year. It says nothing about denominations or the number of coins that can be in a program.

 

He then asked, "What are the odds that God does exist in that 90% of knowledge that we do not know?"

I'd say less than the odds that there will be no proof that he exists

 

If anyone declares that there is no God then they are saying that they know all which makes them God.

 

Are you god,

Well since I believe I know more than a non-existant supernatural being, and you're using that as a guide, I'd have to say yes I am.

[EZ_E]

You probably believe that life was "seeded" here on earth by extraterrestrials, too.

 

SETI (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) turns a telescope outward into space looking for any intelligent patterns to confirm intelligent life.

 

Yet, when one turns a microscope inward at life on planet earth, one sees extreme complexity and design. Who or what is responsible for that? Is it God, time and chance or ET?

 

Go back to the big bang. There is a primordial egg the size of a pinhead that explodes and spews forth our universe. Where did that cosmic egg come from? A big cosmic chicken? The first law of thermodynamics says you can't get something out of nothing so unless you are utterly stupid or just blinded, the big band is impossible.

 

Entropy ensures all things go from order to chaos. The only way around it is to provide work to reverse its affects. Not just random energy from the sun. It must be directed to perform useful work otherwise it will be like nuking Mr. Hamster in the microwave.

 

The laws of probability alone excludes anything but intelligent design. The mathematical odds of insulin being produced by random chance is 10 to the 156th power. The mathematical definition for absurdity is anything over 10 the the 50th power. Even if the chemical were initially present, what directed it to actually carry sucrose across the cellular membrane just to produce ATP?

 

It is often spouted that life was created in the test tube in the 1950's. This is more of the typical misinformation used to lie and to deceive the ignorant. A primordial atmosphere was assumed (even though there is no eye-witness to the fact) to have lots of methane, etc. Lightning was thought to have been the catalyst to make amino acids which are the building blocks of life. So a trap was form on a closed system with the primordial elements. As sparks were zapped into the system, amino acids were formed! WoW! Success! Right? No, 'cause both right and left hand amino acids were formed where life requires left handed ones exclusively. One right handed amino acid will destroy the whole bunch. And, 80% of the byproducts of this experiment was petroleum gunk! Not too conducive to life.

 

I could go on but anyone that actually believes a disproved theory that makes the impossible possible because of long periods of time is so mixed up in his own meager intelligence that the obvious is totally ignored. Besides, entropy increases as time increases which decreases the odds of evolution ever happening. Evolution's best choice is to happen rapidly, yet when fruit flies are bombarded by gamma rays over many generations, it only produces mutations with multi-legs or wings which natural selection will kill off in the wild since functionality is lost. And when the species is let alone, they revert back to normal.

 

Natural selection only works with the genetic variabilities available within the parent group. It forces an organism to either live or die w/i their specific niche. Darwin's finches are an example of adaption forced by natural selection. The gene pool is raided to make an organism survive. If big beaks are required to eat on one of the islands of the Gallopapos the middle-sized beaked and little beaked birds will starve to death and not pass on their genes which will eventually only leave big-beaked finches on their specific island and niche. The opposite is true on other islands. Only little beaks or middle beaks can access the food source so they will propagate their respective offspring which will survive while others will starve. Information is lost to allow the species to adapt to their environment not gained as evolution implies. So, the finches on Gallopapos disproves evolution.

 

This is just the basics. In my intelligent point of view, there is an abundance of evidence that points to a Creator. In comparison, there is not a single thread of evidence which supports evolution--none. The theory thrives on propaganda, threats and misinformation when in reality, there are hundreds of pieces of evidence that disproves it. One example is man and dinosaur footprints found in the same Cretaceous layer in Glen Rose, TX. Scores of man-made artifacts found buried under a mile of coal like gold chains, bells and coins. Just one pre-flood artifact disproves the theory.

 

Since neither creation nor evolution can be reproduced in the laboratory, neither can be directly proved. They just have to be weighed with factual evidence and then decide which theory is left wanting.

[Jeffrey Cardona]

SETI (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intelligence) turns a telescope outward into space looking for any intelligent patterns to confirm intelligent life.

 

Sometimes that telescope should be turned inward towards Earth. See if there is any intellegent life here!! Sometimes us humans do stuff that would be considered not too intellegent!!

 

Us humans can be quite sometimes!!