A new numismatic acronym - OGH

[BillJones]

This week’s edition of the Gray Sheet introduced me to a new numismatic acronym, OGH. It stands for “Old Green Holder” and it refers to the green label PCGS slabs. Now it seems that the market is recognizing something that veteran collectors have been noting for quite a while. A significant number of the old green label PCGS holders have conservatively graded coins in them. (But as a warning I’ll tell you that some of them do not.) It’s also important to note that these coins have been untouched for at least a decade, which means that coin doctors have not been fooling with them. What is in the holder is now presumed to be stable and not likely to turn on its owner.

 

At the EAC convention I related the story of my 1794 half dime which was once in a green label PCGS holder to dealer friend. I had the coin re-holdered some years ago because the old holder had an annoying scratch on the back. Now I guess I lowered the value of my coin because it would have been better in the green label holder. Who would have thunk it?

 

We really do need to come up with a fancy phrase for the old NGC holders. Some of them have very conservatively graded coins in them as well. The holders that had embossed gold logos (before the holograms) on them fall into this category. Perhaps we could call them OEH, “Old Embossed Holder.”

 

I also learned that there is now a gold as well as a green CAC sticker. Now I guess we have “PQ” and “Super PQ.” Perhaps that should be added to the grading terminology some how.

[Coindude]

It’s also important to note that these coins have been untouched for at least a decade, which means that coin doctors have not been fooling with them. What is in the holder is now presumed to be stable and not likely to turn on its owner.

First off, I was told here recently that the OGH's, or "Rattlers" by another name, unless you are talking gen 2 holders here and I know a lot do. I still call the Rattlers OGH's because they are the oldest of the green holdered coins. Anyhow, like I initially was going to state, it is to my understanding that there are people out there that will purchase the rattler and subject it to a chemical atmosphere and thereby tone a coin that most people would think has been untouched. As you know, the rattlers aren't the most airtight coin holders around. I'm not trying to lead anyone into a new career here, but this does happen. Also, if you don't know what you are doing, I'm sure you could ruin a lot of coins.

 

As for the Old NGC holders... how bout OFH... I don't think there's an explanation necessary.

[BillJones]

Personally I hate rattlers. Esthetically I think those holders are ugly, and just as the name says, the many of the coins in them rattled. The rattle can knock off some original toning or worse. Most of the good coins that were in the rattlers were cracked out years ago. For those reasons I hardly bother with rattlers.

 

My favorites are the so-called second generation full sized, green label PCGS holders. You can’t use the green label as a fool-proof way to find up-grades, PQ or even properly graded unfooled with coins because there some clunkers in those holders too. Still if the coin is nice, quite often it’s very nice in a green labeled holder. And like the article said, since the coin has been in there for a long time, if the piece looks natural, chances are it’s stable.

 

[Doogy]

Personally I hate rattlers. Esthetically I think those holders are ugly, and just as the name says, the many of the coins in them rattled. The rattle can knock off some original toning or worse. Most of the good coins that were in the rattlers were cracked out years ago. For those reasons I hardly bother with rattlers.

 

My favorites are the so-called second generation full sized, green label PCGS holders. You can’t use the green label as a fool-proof way to find up-grades, PQ or even properly graded unfooled with coins because there some clunkers in those holders too. Still if the coin is nice, quite often it’s very nice in a green labeled holder. And like the article said, since the coin has been in there for a long time, if the piece looks natural, chances are it’s stable.

 

I agree, Rattlers are annoying and about all i see in them these days are dogs.

[MBA101]

I have 3 OGH's. One is very under-graded, one is slightly under graded to just right, and the third is very over-graded. Is that not the usual spread for slabbed coins?

[Coindude]

I have 3 OGH's. One is very under-graded, one is slightly under graded to just right, and the third is very over-graded. Is that not the usual spread for slabbed coins?

I think nowadays it goes...

1. Way Undergraded

2. Undergraded

3. Just about right!!

[BillJones]

I have 3 OGH's. One is very under-graded, one is slightly under graded to just right, and the third is very over-graded. Is that not the usual spread for slabbed coins?

I think nowadays it goes...

1. Way Undergraded

2. Undergraded

3. Just about right!!

 

I think that coindude has it closer to the truth. A great many recently slabbed coins you see today are over graded. I just saw an ad for a very rare early gold coin that was in an MS-62. Paraphrasing the commentary read, "the Smithsonian does not have one in Mint State, but you can buy one here!" I looked at the coin and concluded that their offering was not Mint State either despite the fact that it was in an MS holder.

 

Grading was in general tighter 15 years ago than it is now. That's just a sad fact.

[Coindude]

You'd think with todays technology they could get things right!

 

As for what I collect, cameos, they have become ridiculously tight!

[DC Dawg]

OMG! PCGS OGH r SFU that the CAC with NG most of them!

 

(SFU = So Friggin' Ugly)

(NG = No Grade)

 

I wonder of numismatics needs its version of the Association Against Acronym Abuse Association (AAAAA)!

 

Hey... I do my work for the government, I speak in acronyms all day!!

 

Scott

[michael]

This week’s edition of the Gray Sheet introduced me to a new numismatic acronym, OGH. It stands for “Old Green Holder” and it refers to the green label PCGS slabs. Now it seems that the market is recognizing something that veteran collectors have been noting for quite a while. A significant number of the old green label PCGS holders have conservatively graded coins in them. (But as a warning I’ll tell you that some of them do not.) It’s also important to note that these coins have been untouched for at least a decade, which means that coin doctors have not been fooling with them. What is in the holder is now presumed to be stable and not likely to turn on its owner.

 

At the EAC convention I related the story of my 1794 half dime which was once in a green label PCGS holder to dealer friend. I had the coin re-holdered some years ago because the old holder had an annoying scratch on the back. Now I guess I lowered the value of my coin because it would have been better in the green label holder. Who would have thunk it?

 

We really do need to come up with a fancy phrase for the old NGC holders. Some of them have very conservatively graded coins in them as well. The holders that had embossed gold logos (before the holograms) on them fall into this category. Perhaps we could call them OEH, “Old Embossed Holder.”

 

I also learned that there is now a gold as well as a green CAC sticker. Now I guess we have “PQ” and “Super PQ.” Perhaps that should be added to the grading terminology some how.

 

oh my

 

my my my my my my my my my my my my my my my my

[BillJones]

Hey... I do my work for the government, I speak in acronyms all day!!

 

I used to work for the old AT&T. I think that they still hold the world's record for the most acronynms.

[TomB]

I do agree that standards appeared to be a bit more strict for both grading and bagging a coin in the mid-1990s, however, there are at least two pitfalls to watch out for when looking at coins certified in this era. The first is that many of the better coins may have already been cracked out, which would leave a higher percentage of overgraded or uninspired coins in these older holders. Additionally, the way the coin looks today might not be what it looked like previously and may not be what it will look like in the future. Therefore, unless you are looking at red copper, and keeping in mind that I believe standards for bagging have changed, I don't know that I would be comfortable in the belief that these coins are uber-stable relative to coins slabbed in newer generation holders.

[DJCoinz]

Old NGC slabs are generally called "fatties" because of their thickness. I have several PCGS OGH's and NGC fatties in my collection. While they are not all necessarily undergraded, I find the old holders to be much nicer looking and I believe they display the coin better.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

I have often written that, any more, "OGH" really stands for "OverGraded Holder". Personally, I think almost all the upgradeable coins in those holders are long gone.

 

The only time I ever see upgradeable OGH coins is when an old, original hoard is sold off. Usually, when I see a coin so slabbed, I wonder why it is still in that old holder, and assume it's because it wouldn't upgrade.

 

Just for the record, I have cataloged about thirty coins in OGH and rattler holders in the past couple of weeks, and I don't think a single one would upgrade today. And, a couple would undoubtedly downgrade.

[rrantique]

[Dcoin]

On Ebay sellers often use it as a selling point, almost like it's a SURE upgrade. In a way it acted like a CAC sticker for some.

[BillJones]

Personally, I think almost all the upgradeable coins in those holders are long gone.

 

If the coins have been numismatic circulation (i.e. trading between dealers) that opinion carries a lot of weight. But if you are talking about "fresh material" (coins that have now come to the market after being in collections for many years), that would not be the case. There are also some coins that are not worth cracking out that are in green label holders that are still PQ. These include common date Morgan dollars and common old commemoratives.

[Oldtrader3]

I just sent in my last "rattler" OGH, PCGS coin to be reholdered. I had owned the coin since the early 1980's. As Bill said these "rattlers are ugly, they rattle the coin around in a circle, they are not airtite and I have had several RD cents turn RB or BN in these holders. I agree too that most of the better OGH coins have been resubmitted or cracked out long ago if they were better than the holder tag. The second generation OGH's can be found, occasionally, from an old collection that are undergraded but not too often anymore.

[Conder101]

I have GOT to get the PCGS generations thread put back together and posted. I cringe when I see people talking about the "old Green holders" and then post pictures of the LAST generation of the green holders (1995 - 98). Several people here ave mentioned the "second generation" OGH and posted pictures of the PCGS 5 holder which was actually the SEVENTH generation of PCGS holder. Even the term OGH keeps changing what it is referring to. Before 1999 OGH referred to either the rattlers or the 1990 -1995 holders, usually the latter and it was the rattlers that were always looked upon as the potential upgrade candidates. Then once the first blue label slabs came out OGH changed to mean Any of the post rattler, pre blue label slabs and since the rattlers were pretty much picked over these OGH slabs were promoted as being the possible upgrade candidates, even though the vast majority of the "old green holders" had been slabbed within the past 12 to 24 months. And if PCGS were to make a significant change in the color of their labels, in short order we would see promotions about the "Upgrade potential of the Old Blue Holders".

 

And OGH has another numismatic meaning. It is also used to mean Original Government Holder.

[jackson64]

glad someone said that Conder....I refer to the old green holders as the rattlers...the green holders pictured are much later and I've found them to be a bit lenient in their standards during most of this period....

 

also, I also thought the acronym OGH meant "Original Government Holder"......mostly used refering to singlularly sold items like commems, where OGP was used more for mint/proof sets

[BillJones]

Until more recent times, PCGS authorized dealers who made comments about the size of the holder or the color of the label in their printed advertised risked getting the boot from PCGS. For that reason comments about the color of the label have largely been left to word of mouth.

 

And yes, I'll stand by my previous comments. While there are over graded coins in PCGS holders with green labels and some coins that would get a body bag if they were cracked out and re-submitted, by in large it is to your advanrage to examine greeen label PCGS holders for corrected graded coins or possilbe up grades.