What do paypal do for the seller ?

[dooly]

Hear is a dispute which has started on paypal and i have found it so hard to get them to listen to the sellers point.. it gives you less and less options but the give the money back option which is always there.. i know i am not going to get any ware with this as i cannot prove that he has not received the token but .. this is going to pick on the honest people who i post to world wide as everything will have to be sent recorded at about £5/$10 a time .. which sounds OK but if something go's missing you cannot put a clam in for 6 Weeks and you have to wait 6-10 Weeks for the insurance money to come through from the post office.. so that would be such a bind for all concerned

 

Below is the mails from paypal messages sent by myself and the buyer

 

Please note the dates as they do not run cronologically

 

From Buyer: William Van Valkenburg on 20/05/2008 04:55 BST

Following is the web link which reflects my purchase of the item and which clearly states that insurance is not an option - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220222083239&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=012

 

From Seller: lolscoins on 20/05/2008 01:24 BST

 

I have checked the sale and it clearly states "recorded" delivery as an option within the UK and that i will post world wide ? why would i not offer this service to overseas as well ?

 

From Seller: lolscoins on 20/05/2008 01:15 BST

 

This is a copy of the message sent to the Buyer Your coin was posted on Monday 14th April at Newcastle Transaction ID: 44-353329-1-3079270-5 (post office).. and my records show you did not request insured/recorded delivery on this item so i have no tracking number to search for your item.. i have had items from the USA sit in customs for ages.. i would sejest you contact the USA postal service as to where your item is as the Royal mail do not track items (unless sent Air sure) after they are handed to the USA postal service. sorry for the problems and i hope it turned up soon .. all the other items sent to the USA on that day have arrived with no problems I have contacted the royal mail who said that the item was passed to the US postal service on the 18th .. after that they have no responsibility for the item.. contacting the Local post office will be of no use so it is not surprising that "my local post office and they stated it was meaningless to them." it would be USPS who could tell you what happened to the coin.. As for the "The seller also pointed out that I had not requested insurance for the item. This is correct, however the seller's ebay listing and invoice clearly stated that insurance was not an option." What a silly statement Of course insurance is an Option how could i stop someone requesting it!! that is for the buyer to request if they are at all worried about what they have won. i have also not received items myself and it once took over 1 year to receive i package from cypress as "it had been found behind a machine in the sorting office there" and i know its disappointing but it was beyond the sellers control.

 

From Buyer: William Van Valkenburg on 19/05/2008 17:27 BST

 

On 04/13/08 I purchased and paid for a 1794 Hands Sheffield token for $58.29 USD/$28.80 GBP. When the token did not arrive I emailed the seller on or around 05/02/08 to inquire about the status. I did not receive a response. I sent a second email on or around 05/12/08 to again inquire about the status of my purchase. The seller responded on 05/13/08 stating that the token had been mailed 04/14/08. The seller provided a mailing transaction number but indicated that it could not be used to track the item. I showed the number to my local post office and they stated it was meaningless to them. The seller also pointed out that I had not requested insurance for the item. This is correct, however the seller's ebay listing and invoice clearly stated that insurance was not an option. Bill Van Valkenburg

 

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no problems..Following is the web link which reflects my purchase of the item and which clearly states that insurance is not an option - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220222083239&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=012

 

Yes this is stated for the UK postage as items Under £35 are automatically covered buy insurance also recorded delivery in the UK also gives insurance.

From overseas this is an option only

The above tracking number is a Transaction id which proves the coin was sent and that there has been a problem on the USA side of this. i believe that this buyer is trying to scam this and keep the coin and take the money back as well .. all the other coins sent to the USA on the same day have been received with no problems.. I think the statements from him in his messages should show you he is keeping changing his story on each one "recorded was not an option" when this was proven it is now "Insurance was not an option".. Which this also would be available to worldwide if they wanted it.. i have had others sent this week who have requested it and it is no problem ... this would be an unfair decision if he was to receive his payment back.. if he did not like the coin he could have requested a refund and as i state in my listings he would have been given a full refund for the item With no problems..

 

dooly

[World Colonial]

What you are describing are the hazards of international shipping. I sell only occasionally but almost all of my items go to South Africa in which I have zero confidence in the postal service except for registered mail. Everything recent has sold for more than $100 but if I were selling items valued for less, then I do not believe I would be able to charge $15. And even with this fee, I am usually losing moeny on shipping after paying for private insurance. I would simply have to send it by regualr mail and consider any loss a cost of doing business. That is essentially what happened when I sent a $400 package express mail and then found out that FedEx handles this and does not even accept coins. My opinion is that someone (probably in SA customs) stole the items.

 

I used to like Paypal better because I received my money sooner. But if it were possible, I would get paid by international buyers without it. Problem is, they do not have ready access to USD and also want the buyer protection. It is the same for me when I am a buyer.

 

I'm not sure to what countries you sell, but one thing you can do (if you do not do so already) is to limit the countries you will ship. If I am selling a South Africa coin, I will not ship to South America for example. It would be pointless. And I have never shipped to anywhere else in Africa or most of Asia. The incremental sales price I MIGHT receive is not worth the increased risk.

 

 

[TomB]

I have not yet been involved in a PayPal dispute, but I would assume that they would side with the buyer and withdraw the funds from your linked account. There would be at least two reasons for this, in my opinion. The first is that I believe it is the seller's responsibility to make certain that a package is delivered and it seems that there is nothing that indicates this package was ever delivered. The second is that your auction states "None" under "Insurance" in your shipping and handling instructions. Some folks might read this as a statement that you are not open to the option of purchasing insurance. I don't know the costs associated with insurance or required signatures on international shipping, but in the US I always use these features.

[gmarguli]

Short answer: You will lose the PayPal dispute.

 

Regardless of the terms you put in your auction or the laws regarding individuals shipping, by accepting PayPal you are agreeing to their terms. They require tracking which is traceable online on all shipments. If you do not have this you you will lose.

 

This is the main hazard with shipping internationally. Tracking is expensive and not worth it for most items. You either need to suck up the losses or stop shipping internationally or stop accepting PayPal for international buyers. Sadly, there are no other options available.

 

I ship a LOT of packages internationally. By requiring Registered Mail for shipments over a certain dollar value and to some countries regardless of dollar value, it has cut down on my claims and potential claims. Once a package reaches a certain dollar value, I'll kick in for the extra cost of Express Mail which is traceable online. There is no postal insurance available for these packages, but at least I know if it arrived.

 

What you might consider is finding someone in the US who you can ship a bunch of coins to and they can send them to the buyer via USPS with tracking.

 

Also, looking at the feedback for the buyer, I do not believe that they are trying to cheat you. They have a spotless record including from other international sellers.

[James_OldeTowne]

... or, stop taking altogether!

[gmarguli]

97% of my buyers pay with PayPal. I think you'd lose more than you'd gain by not accepting PayPal.

 

I know that if a seller doesn't take PayPal, I'll skip their auctions with rare exception.

[EZ_E]

The buyer's tone didn't sound like he was a scammer, to me. I think that he's on the level.

 

p.s. I will very rarely purchase anything if the seller doesn't take paypal.

[Oldtrader3]

Ebay being what it is, I would not buy a coin from most dealers, at least dealers that I do not have a history with, without PayPal. As a collector, PayPal is my only insurance against people that would stiff me.

 

I can't believe my eyes! My Ebay feedback went up to cover most of my sales and my single unfair negative feedback has evaporated! I have been struggling with Ebay forever to try and change their policy against retalitory feedback on cases where the seller did not follow Ebay policy and neged me because I neged him for not shipping.

[CHABSENTIA]

"Tracking is expensive"? I ship packages frequently and a delivery confirmation costs $.65 and you can track it on the Internet.

[dooly]

"Tracking is expensive"? I ship packages frequently and a delivery confirmation costs $.65 and you can track it on the Internet.

 

Wow you are lucky try this on for size And you can only insure up to £36...

 

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?mediaId=22700566&catId=400034

 

 

[gmarguli]

"Tracking is expensive"? I ship packages frequently and a delivery confirmation costs $.65 and you can track it on the Internet.

 

You took my words out of context. I wrote: This is the main hazard with shipping internationally. Tracking is expensive and not worth it for most items. I think I pay 18c for Delivery Confirmation in the US. However, for international mail you need to use Express Mail to enable tracking which is expensive.

[CHABSENTIA]

You would know. I don't do any International shipping.Sorry for the confusion.

[dopy02]

"Tracking is expensive"? I ship packages frequently and a delivery confirmation costs $.65 and you can track it on the Internet.

 

that only works within the US. The USPS does not offer delivery confirmation on international shipping.

[Oldtrader3]

I live on the Canadian Border and we have the same problem that you do in England, Dooly, if we ship to Canada, which is about 300 meters from my front door. It costs the same as shipping to the U.K. for Registered Mail with no tracking available. That is why I never sell to Canadians on Ebay unless they want to pay Registered mail fees with insurance. I also wait (10) days after payment by Canadian check before I ship. I have been almost stiffed a couple times on shipping to Canada and not receiving merchandise without hassle. This made made me leery of Canada sales, not that all Canadians are any different than Americans, just harder to collect from, especially in Quebec where if you are English speaking, forget it. Nous parlons Angle.

[Houston Investor]

You can set up your paypal account so it blocks international payments. In this way international buyers are forced to use another method than paypal. I did this with a guy in Hungary - he sent me $40 cash - good enough for me! Now I hope his coin gets there, hopefully USPS can provide some kind of tracking - but if not it won't be a paypal dispute. The problem with these intl sales, is if there is a dispute you could get negged and with the new ebay FB rules you can not neg them in return. Makes me sick. At least before you had a decent sized stick to keep most of the bozos at bay.

 

Regardless of your terms, paypal will side with the buyer if you can not provide tracking and return receipt (items over $250) in any dispute. My advice: stay away from intl sales.