A striking situation

[cpm9ball]

Here are two 1888-O Morgan $'s that I acquired recently. Both of them have the weakest strike on the obverse and reverse that I have ever seen for this date/mm. The second one has very fine, almost horizontal, striations on the obverse which makes me think that the planchet didn't even come into contact with the die around Liberty's ear and the hair above it.

 

What makes these even more interesting, at least to me, is the fact that they appear to have been produced from the same die pair. Both have an identical clash, and it is one that isn't listed. If you look on the reverse, you can see the partial "Y" from LIBERTY below the eagle's left wing (viewer's right) just northwest of the arrowheads.

 

Needless to say, I will be sending these to Leroy.

 

Chris

[Dwaine]

Interesting and best of luck on getting them attributed with a new VAM.

[EZ_E]

I think that maybe you were a mint director in a previous life, Chris. Maybe the Paris mint?

[harvey8542]

Nice find hope you get a new Vam #

[cpm9ball]

I think that maybe you were a mint director in a previous life, Chris. Maybe the Paris mint?

 

Well...........er............um.............gee............thanks............I guess.

 

Speaking of the Paris Mint, check out my latest acquisition from one of my French Connections in Tangents.

 

Chris

[Oldtrader3]

I have seen worse strike, "O" mint Morgans on the mid-1880's coins. Interesting clash marks. New Orleans often had to make due with second hand dies from Philadelphia. Plus, they often set die strike height more open to yield more strikes because they could not get any replacement dies. Probably not coded right for terminology, but you get the point.

[cpm9ball]

I have seen worse strike, "O" mint Morgans on the mid-1880's coins. Interesting clash marks. New Orleans often had to make due with second hand dies from Philadelphia. Plus, they often set die strike height more open to yield more strikes because they could not get any replacement dies. Probably not coded right for terminology, but you get the point.

 

Yes, I do, though my photos don't really show the full extent of the weakness of the strikes.

 

Chris

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

The second one has very fine, almost horizontal, striations on the obverse which makes me think that the planchet didn't even come into contact with the die around Liberty's ear and the hair above it.

Chris

 

This is often a problem on Franklin halves. Tomaska calls it "high point pitting" - it is fairly obvious that the planchet did not receive enough pressure to cause the metal flow to fully fill the dies. It is most commonly seen on Franklin's cheek and jawbone and on the bell. This is one reason why FBLs are harder to come by on certain dates.

[cpm9ball]

The second one has very fine, almost horizontal, striations on the obverse which makes me think that the planchet didn't even come into contact with the die around Liberty's ear and the hair above it.

Chris

 

This is often a problem on Franklin halves. Tomaska calls it "high point pitting" - it is fairly obvious that the planchet did not receive enough pressure to cause the metal flow to fully fill the dies. It is most commonly seen on Franklin's cheek and jawbone and on the bell. This is one reason why FBLs are harder to come by on certain dates.

 

When a slab of metal is rolled into sheets, the metal flows evenly in the same direction along the length of the slab. Just as we see flow lines on coins, you would also see flow lines on the slab of metal. These flow lines would take on the appearance of minute, parallel striations on the sheet of metal because the pressure is uniform across the width. If the strike is too weak in the course of producing the coin, some of the striations would remain undisturbed.

 

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

Chris

[WoodenJefferson]

Could this weakness be the result of late die states in conjunction with "basining" of the dies?

[SkyMan]

The second one has very fine, almost horizontal, striations on the obverse which makes me think that the planchet didn't even come into contact with the die around Liberty's ear and the hair above it.

Chris

 

This is often a problem on Franklin halves. Tomaska calls it "high point pitting" - it is fairly obvious that the planchet did not receive enough pressure to cause the metal flow to fully fill the dies. It is most commonly seen on Franklin's cheek and jawbone and on the bell. This is one reason why FBLs are harder to come by on certain dates.

 

When a slab of metal is rolled into sheets, the metal flows evenly in the same direction along the length of the slab. Just as we see flow lines on coins, you would also see flow lines on the slab of metal. These flow lines would take on the appearance of minute, parallel striations on the sheet of metal because the pressure is uniform across the width. If the strike is too weak in the course of producing the coin, some of the striations would remain undisturbed.

 

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

Chris

 

Interesting stuff, Chris. The 1960 P mint Frankie (and to a significantly lesser degree the 1959-P) can be found with linear striations that ONLY show up when the coin tones up. Many of us have been trying to figure out what was causing this. Your explanation may be just the ticket, although these lines do appear on fairly well struck coins too. Here's a 1960 (non-fbl) as an example.

 

[cpm9ball]

Could this weakness be the result of late die states in conjunction with "basining" of the dies?

 

Probably not, Woody. There are the other common clashes on the reverse (facial outline, the "v-shape" of the cap and the spike from Liberty's neck) that are fairly bold. If it had been an LDS, they would have faded from continued use of the die.

 

Chris