How about a GTG on this 1813 Bustie?

[MBA101]

I have a feeling that most guesses will be off for some reason...

 

[James_OldeTowne]

This die marriage is always difficult to grade, and it depends on whether you mean market grading or technical grading by type.

 

PCGS will typically call that an EF-45. While that might reflect the actual amount of wear, we all know that strike should play a part in grade, and therefore, the coin should grade only around VF-30 as a type coin.

 

I'll guess they put it in the EF or Choice EF range. But PCGS grading of bust halves is notoriously inconsistent (so is NGC's).

[physics-fan3.14]

I'll take a wild shot in the dark and go EF-40. Its a really attractive bustie struck from apparently very late state dies, with a bit of luster hidden in there. There's good color playing around the edges, too. The only thing I'm concerned with is the couple of pieces of green gunk on the eagle's neck, breast, and foot.

[MarkFeld]

I have a feeling that most guesses will be off for some reason...

Based partly upon that comment, my grade guess is AU50.

[MBA101]

You should base your guess on your opinion. I could be hinting its way low as well.

 

Based on some of James's comments, which do you feel is a higher grade coin? That one or this one? And this one is NOT cleaned, I may add. The light is rather reflective though...

 

[MBA101]

And for that matter, how would you grade this one in relation to the other two.

 

There really is no right or wrong answer, just looking for opinions. I think this is all rather interesting...

 

[MarkFeld]

You should base your guess on your opinion. I could be hinting its way low as well.

 

Based on some of James's comments, which do you feel is a higher grade coin? That one or this one? And this one is NOT cleaned, I may add. The light is rather reflective though...

 

I would have guessed at least XF45 anyway. And and my gut (which might be dead wrong) told me that you thought guesses were more likely to be on the low side than on the high side. Based on the images, my feeling is that the 2'd example should be graded higher, but I don't know how accurate or inaccurate the pictures are.

[MBA101]

You should base your guess on your opinion. I could be hinting its way low as well.

 

Based on some of James's comments, which do you feel is a higher grade coin? That one or this one? And this one is NOT cleaned, I may add. The light is rather reflective though...

 

I would have guessed at least XF45 anyway. And and my gut (which might be dead wrong) told me that you thought guesses were more likely to be on the low side than on the high side. Based on the images, my feeling is that the 2'd example should be graded higher, but I don't know how accurate or inaccurate the pictures are.

 

Mark, the pics I have taken are rather accurate, except maybe for showing the full extent of luster on each coin. You can take some of the reflection of the second one AS luster, but not all, for the toning on that one is different, more like a platinum. You could almost say it is similar to the coffee can walker that I posted. The bottom two coins were photographed raw so the true in hand and light feel for the coins comes across best. The PCGS holder for the top one is not too restrictive either.

 

I just find the difficulty in grading these coins because of their own inconsistencies rather interesting. Makes me think that selling to knowledgeable buyers raw and in person is way better than selling slabbed over the internet. In the case of coins such as these, it is clear. But in this day and age, slabbing and posting on the internet will also reach the most people no matter what. (not that I am planing on selling, just thinking with my fingers)

 

The second coin to me has been stored differently from the first and third, not dipped or cleaned. The toning is just different, and there is still plenty of dirt and grime present. The second also has the most luster remaining.

 

Just fuel for thought...

[physics-fan3.14]

The strike on that second one is amazingly bad. I would still grade it EF-40, maybe 45. The third one also appears to be 40. An interesting comparison of varieites and their different grading.

[Coindude]

I would say that the first you posted is around XF, but the 3rd one you posted is probably the most eye appealing because the reverse and the obv match. The second obv is definitely the best of the three and the first picture has the worst obverse by far. I'm going to say the graded one is 40 to 45.

[MBA101]

I am going to sign off for the night, so I will divulge that coin # 1 is in a PCGS XF45 holder. I am torn about the grade on this one, but frankly I just like the coin grade not withstanding. Nice colors and originality. I think the wear may be a bit much for a 45, but it seems to have the luster of an AU coin, so maybe the wear looks worse than it actually is.

 

Will get into the other two another time....

 

TTFN

[James_OldeTowne]

I am going to sign off for the night, so I will divulge that coin # 1 is in a PCGS XF45 holder. I am torn about the grade on this one, but frankly I just like the coin grade not withstanding. Nice colors and originality. I think the wear may be a bit much for a 45, but it seems to have the luster of an AU coin, so maybe the wear looks worse than it actually is.

I win !

 

It isn't so much the wear as it is the coin was struck flat to begin with. PCGS overgraded the coin, but they overgraded it in a manner consistent with their usual grading of this particular die marriage (in other words, it is correctly "market graded"). So, I would say they actually did a better job than usual.

 

From the standpoint of condition census grading, though, it should be in a mid-VF grade. However, your usual price guides (Trends, public auction results) will reflect the market grade.

[michael]

cleaned a long long time ago with

developing outer rim secondary toning

 

vf++ with claims to xf40

 

slightly below average eye appeal

[MBA101]

cleaned a long long time ago with

developing outer rim secondary toning

 

vf++ with claims to xf40

 

slightly below average eye appeal

 

So the chocolate toning in the center developed when? If this was cleaned, it was 150 years ago, and not with a wipe.

[michael]

cleaned a long long time ago with

developing outer rim secondary toning

 

vf++ with claims to xf40

 

slightly below average eye appeal

 

So the chocolate toning in the center developed when? If this was cleaned, it was 150 years ago, and not with a wipe.

 

okie i understand, i was just going by the photo; which might not be that good in showing what the coin truly looks like in hand sight seen; but the photos are all we got on here

 

also..................... in hand sight seen might be different

 

can you post a more realistic photo of this coin??

[Mozin]

My guess would have been PCGS 35. That green gook is a concern. Could be active PVC.

[MBA101]

That green gook is a concern. Could be active PVC.

Its only green in the way the light in the photo hits it. It is really more of a very dark blue-black. I don' t think PCGS would have slabbed it if there were such large amounts of PVC on a coin that was that obvious.