could it actually happen?

[halfpint]

 

http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/

[Lost Dutchman]

i sure hope not.... we all see how bad the old steel cents corrode.

[Conder101]

we all see how bad the old steel cents corrode.

Not really a valid comparison. The old steel cents were plated with zinc, a metal INTENDED to corrode to give some protection to the steel substrate. Also with the steel cents the strip was plated so when the blanks were punched out they were left with edges that were unprotected and a potential corrosion target.

 

If they were to do the steel cent today, it will most likely be with copper plated blanks and the blanks will be plated after having been punched from the strip. Just like todays zinc cents are plated. This will "seal" away the reactive steel from the element with a much less reactive copper layer. Sure you get a break in the copper layer the steel can start corroding, but that is the same case as what we have today with the zinc cents.

[physics-fan3.14]

He brings up a very good point - the vending machine lobbies will go haywire over this. They have been known in the past to have halted or significantly altered the course of coinage, so I'm sure they will have a force here.

[PerryHall]

He brings up a very good point - the vending machine lobbies will go haywire over this. They have been known in the past to have halted or significantly altered the course of coinage, so I'm sure they will have a force here.

 

How many vending machines still take cents these days?

[physics-fan3.14]

He brings up a very good point - the vending machine lobbies will go haywire over this. They have been known in the past to have halted or significantly altered the course of coinage, so I'm sure they will have a force here.

 

How many vending machines still take cents these days?

 

Not so much for the cents, but nickels are still accepted in most of them, I think.

[BULLY]

I read about this, and it could definitely happen!

 

If I read this correctly, Article I, Section 8 of The Constitution gives Congress the power to coin money...

 

The administration can balk at it, and Congress can be kind about it, giving 90 days with an "out" clause, but ultimately, if Congress passed the legislation, it's a done deal. It is their sole authority as granted by The Constitution.

 

It says:

 

"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; ...."

 

http://www.numismaticnews.net/buzz/

[DC Dawg]

I read about this, and it could definitely happen!

 

If I read this correctly, Article I, Section 8 of The Constitution gives Congress the power to coin money...

 

The administration can balk at it, and Congress can be kind about it, giving 90 days with an "out" clause, but ultimately, if Congress passed the legislation, it's a done deal. It is their sole authority as granted by The Constitution.

 

It says:

 

"To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; ...."]

Congress can pass any bill it want, send it to the president for his signature. If the president signs the bill, it becomes law. The only way for it to be declared unconstitutional is for the law to be challenged and heard in US District Court in Washington, DC. After the District Court rules, the case may be appealed to the US Supreme Court. The Supremes can either accept the lower court's ruling by not hearing the case (unlikely in these types of cases) or hear the case and make a ruling.

 

The last significant case that tried to get around the constitution that was heard by the Supreme Court was the Line-Item veto provisions passed during the Clinton administration. The Court struck down the ruling on constitutional grounds with an opinion that to have the Line Item veto, Congress has to do this as an amendment to the constitution--which is a good idea! The one strange aspect about this decision was that they let stand the vetoes of line-items made before the ruling.

 

Congress has abrogated its constitutional responsibilities before. For example, the constitution says that congress is "to establish post offices and post roads." Congress does not do this. It is handled by an independent government corporation called the US Postal Service. Congress only "names" post offices on request.

 

H.R. 5512, the Coin Modernization and Taxpayer Savings Act of 2008, follows in the tradition of congress abrogating their responsibilities for the alleged "common good" and their own expediency. The bill allegedly allows the Mint to better respond to market changes and make copper-colored (not coated) steel cents starting on 2010. Interestingly, Mint Director Edmund Moy is against the bill.

 

H.R. 5512 was passed by the House and the enrolled bill should be sent to the Senate for their consideration next week. If you are concerned or approve of this bill, I urge you to participate in the process by letting your senators know you feel. Just visit www.senate.gov, find your senator from the pull down menu at the top of the page, go to your senator's contact page and send them an email note. Trust me, they know what their constituents write to them. They know that regardless of whatever lobbying goes on, the lobbyist is not a constituent and will not be able to re-elect them. Constituents matter!

 

Scott

[World Colonial]

There have been many posts on this topic before since I joined the forum. And like I have said many times before, this would be a non-issue if the government would stop debasing the currency.

 

When I first started collecting at age 10, I had one or two aluminum coins which I believe were from Austria after WWII (not sure, but I believe so). They looked and felt more like something that would be included in a board game like Monopoly. With the relentless debasement of the currency, it is going to get to the point where all existing coin denominations will both cost more than the metal content and have minimal to no purchasing power. People on these boards have (correctly) commented about the lack of purchasing power in the cent, but the same applies to every other one as well. You cannot really buy anything with them.

[BULLY]

While Congress MAY pass along its Constitutional responsibilities (such as the decision making about the coinage), the power cannot be TAKEN from them by, say, the Executive Branch. So, for instance, if the Congress passes the legislation saying they want steel cents, the President really has no recourse to veto it, because The Constitution grants the sole authority about the decision-making about the coinage to The Congress.

 

The fact that Congress, in the legislation they passed, allowed the Treasury Department/Mint to come up with an alternative within X period of time was up to them, THEY allowed that condition.

 

 

------------------

Congress has abrogated its constitutional responsibilities before. For example, the constitution says that congress is "to establish post offices and post roads." Congress does not do this. It is handled by an independent government corporation called the US Postal Service. Congress only "names" post offices on request.

 

 

Scott

[richbeat]

After steel, what's left? There's virtually nothing that is as cheap or cheaper.

 

The Canadian circulating coins are plated steel. How are they holding up? They seem to be doing okay.

[World Colonial]

Do you have any particular definition of "holding up"? The Canadian Dollar, like many others is appreciating versus the USD having risen from about 62 USD cents to about parity since 2000/2002, but like all other currencies in the last century, its purchasing power has been devastated.

 

Longer terms, I have mixed thoughts about the prospects of the Canadian Dollar. "Eventually", like all other currencies, its value versus real money - gold - will approach zero. It will just quite never get there because having lost over 95% of its original purchasing power versus gold already, there isn't much proportionally left to lose. But I still expect Canadian politicians like all others to continue to debase their currency.

 

Versus the USD, it will have the advantage that the USD will lose another substantial portion of its value as it eventually loses its reserve status. And since Canada has substantial natural resources and those should increase in nominal terms, it will have the benefit of that as well.

 

On the negative side, I'm still a sceptic that Canada will survive as a unified country. (Acutally, my scepticism is on the when not if, since nothing lasts forever). Whether that will be a positive or a negative for the currency is impossible to say. It isn't that Canada is particularly more exposed to splitting up than many other countries (though Quebec is always a potential issue), it is that I believe that the incentives that existed to remain unified are going to decrease over time. Its a similar problem that other countries such as Belgium and Italy also have. The richer more affluent parts of the country (presumably Alberta and British Colombia in Canada) are going to get sick of subsidizing the poorer regions, like the maritime provices such as Nova Scotia where my brother lives.

[Conder101]

The Constitution gives Congress the authority to create money and regulate its value. As long as the Mint is acting under the authority of the Congress to strike the coins, Congress has not abrogated their Constitutional authority. Allowing the choice of alloy to be made by the Director or the Secretary of the Treasury does not change the fact that the coins will be struck under the authority of the Congress so there is no Constitutional problem. (As I see it the congressional problem is that they are letting the Federal Reserve regulate the value of the money. I'm not sure if you could make the case that the Fed is operating under the authority of the Congress since I don't believe they answer to the Congress directly.)

 

Do you have any particular definition of "holding up"?

I believe he was strictly speaking in a physical sense. The plated cents are still holding up well, not corroding or wearing through their plating. etc.

[richbeat]

Thanks, Conder. That's what I meant.

[MTHead-migration]

After steel, what's left? There's virtually nothing that is as cheap or cheaper.

 

The Canadian circulating coins are plated steel. How are they holding up? They seem to be doing okay.

 

Do you have any particular definition of "holding up"?

 

I think richbeat was asking if Canadian Cents looked like mess after they have circulated for a while.

While your post was insightfull I think you misunderstood the original question.