Kind of Funny/Sad PCGS/ICCS Slab

[gmarguli]

Found these on eBay. There are a bunch more.

 

 

I know there was some talk about PCGS grading ICCS coins in their flips, but that couldn't happen for political reasons. Looks like the reverse has started to happen.

 

For anyone who doesn't know too much about ICCS, they are a tough grading service for Canadian coin. Extremely well respected among Canadian collectors. Much more respected than PCGS, NGC, or ANACS in this community.

[toyonakataro]

I decided to collect some Canadaian coins recently and waiting for the canadian coins guide book whitch I bought from eBay seller to arrive for more 3 weeks

Glad I leaned the difference of grading standard between ICCS and others before I actually bought some canadian coins.

Is ICCS consistant in grading?

What's up with your icon...kinda cute...

[gmarguli]

Is ICCS consistant in grading?

 

 

From what I have seen, which isn't too much, they are. I like the grading overall, but I don't like their "slab".

 

 

What's up with your icon...kinda cute...

 

Hey, looks who's talking. It's just the nicer side of me that everyone gets to experience on these forums. Don't worry, I have a feeling it won't last.

[truthteller]

PCGS does not know how to grade foreign coinage. They have only one grader assign a grade. And foreign authentification is also suspect. Most of the foreign dealers I work with will only sell PCGS foreign coinage to US collectors, and they have to discount the grade. Foreign collectors are adamant about rejecting PCGS. ANACS actually sells a bit better and is more respected than PCGS for foreign. ICCS is by far and away the most respected grading service for foreign coinage. The ICCS graders use European standards, so an MS65 is more like a ICCS MS62-63 or CHOICE BU.

 

 

TRUTH

[JamminJ]

PCGS does not know how to grade foreign coinage. They have only one grader assign a grade. And foreign authentification is also suspect. Most of the foreign dealers I work with will only sell PCGS foreign coinage to US collectors, and they have to discount the grade. Foreign collectors are adamant about rejecting PCGS. ANACS actually sells a bit better and is more respected than PCGS for foreign. ICCS is by far and away the most respected grading service for foreign coinage. The ICCS graders use European standards, so an MS65 is more like a ICCS MS62-63 or CHOICE BU.

 

 

TRUTH

 

Hi Truthteller,

 

I'd be curious to hear your opinion of where NGC fits in with ICCS, PCGS and ANACS among respected TPG comanies for foreign coins.

 

-JamminJ

[James_OldeTowne]

I recently got rudely introduced to the stricter Canadian grading standards. Well maybe not SO rudely, since I like their strictness, and wish it applied to US coinage as well. Basically, coins that looked like AU grades, based on current NGC/PCGS standards, would have been graded XF by ICCS. Kind of like the Sheldon grading system, which is still consistent in the EAC, and a lot more conservative. Much of the reason there are "not enough" MS grades (60 - 70) is that too many high-end AU coins are graded as UNC. You can find many, many examples. In fact I'd say MOST MS-60 - MS-63 bust halves have significant rub on them, and truly should be graded AU-55/8.

 

Greg, both those examples you provided are very funny/sad like you said. In fact, another word comes to mind: pathetic.

 

And in case tradedollarnut is watching, I would have said the same thing had you shown us NGC coins.

 

James

[Tradedollarnut]

Yeah, I'm here. And the proper response is this:

 

There's nothing sad about it - just like there's nothing sad when the assertion that NGC overgrades coins is made. PCGS has its standard, NGC has its and they both try like hell to grade to that standard. It seems that in many series PCGS grades about 1/4-3/4 points tighter than NGC, but that doesn't make NGC wrong. They just have different standards and they are both market acceptable. In fact, if the standard price guides vs prices realized at auction are any indicator, both NGC and PCGS are too tight vs what is market acceptable [as indicated by the price guides for the grade involved].

 

So what if ICCS has a different standard and its a bit tighter than PCGS? Every single coin grading company has its own standard and someone has to be "tightest".

[James_OldeTowne]

Tradedollarnut, what I thought was sad was the "cleaned" coin. It looks cleaned even from the bad image. As far as discrepancies in grading, I couldn't care less about that. If PCGS or NGC or ANACS is a point higher or lower, doesn't bother me. I wish ALL grading was more conservative.

 

James

[Tradedollarnut]

Greg, both those examples you provided are very funny/sad like you said. In fact, another word comes to mind: pathetic.

 

what I thought was sad was the "cleaned" coin.

 

I'm having problems seeing those two statements as being consistent with each other. Are you saying the first example is funny and pathetic and the second example is sad and pathetic? How does that reconcile with your next statement:

 

As far as discrepancies in grading, I couldn't care less about that. If PCGS or NGC or ANACS is a point higher or lower, doesn't bother me. I wish ALL grading was more conservative.

 

How can it be funny, pathetic and ok all at once?

 

[James_OldeTowne]

TDN, you are getting WAY to upset about this?!?! Reconcile it very simply by realizing that, being a rather ordinary, normal person, sometimes (gasp) I might simply write what I feel at the time! Are you shocked by that?! Or is it really that you are so upset by the slightest ding on PCGS that you overreact? (nitpicky comment goes here)

 

OK, right now, the pathetic one is the cleaned one, and the funny one is the overgraded one, and the sad part is that today's grading is not conservative enough. Are you happy now??? (nitpicky nitpicky comments here!) Why are you so extremely concerned about it that you nitpick everything?

 

How about in a few minutes, I'll think the cleaned one is funny, the overgraded one is sad, and overall, it's pathetic? (more nitpicky goes here)

 

Maybe tomorrow, I'll feel like both coins are sad, the cleaning is pathetic and overall nothing was funny at all!

 

The point is, you are WAAAAAAAYYYYY too worried about what's inconsistent and what isn't (place for another nitpicky comment). Gosh, don't sweat the small stuff! Coin collecting is supposed to be fun!!!!! Or maybe PCGS has taken too much of the fun out of it for you? (nitpick here too)

 

Grin a little - you'll feel a whole lot better.

 

(put in one more nitpick comment here)

 

James

[Tradedollarnut]

Ok, guys, your act is wearing thin on me. Yes, you have a gripe with PCGS. But you wear your gripe rather prominently on your sleeve and it's well past the point where it's impacting this forum.

 

Why do I nitpick your comments? Because you guys appear willing to "write what you feel at the time" to further your low opinion of PCGS. And if you are willing to say whatever appeals to you at the moment, then IMO it impacts the validity of what you've said in regard to your original gripe.

 

For instance: Your use of the word pathetic. That's a rather strong word that really implies something atrocious was done in regard to those two coins. Yet you now say "As far as discrepancies in grading, I couldn't care less about that. If PCGS or NGC or ANACS is a point higher or lower, doesn't bother me." Ok, so your gripe is no longer with both coins as you initially stated, now it's just with the second coin. And yet you know darn well that all the grading services will allow a lightly cleaned older coin in their holders and that they simply net grade it without mentioning the net grade. In fact, in another thread, you appear to argue for this to occur - you state "why can't my lightly dipped 1905 Indian cent be certified by PCGS then? It's clearly a coin, but they body-bag it. Because they made an arbitrary call it's not worthy of certification." So now, using the logic of your assertion in the other thread, the second coin is ok as well. So what's pathetic? Seems to me that it just might be the fact that you "write what you feel at the time" with no regards to consistency or the facts.

 

When you stop allowing your opinions to twist in the wind and "write what you feel at the time" in order to shine the worst possible light on a particular TPG, then I will stop nitpicking what you write. Perhaps the best solution is for all of us to talk coins and not wear our negative opinions so prominently on our sleeves?

[James_OldeTowne]

(((Ok, guys, your act is wearing thin on me.)))

 

If that is true, then why do you keep reviving these threads which you claim are so offensive to you? I mean, if banging your head on a wall hurts, should you keep banging your head on the wall?

 

(((Because you guys appear willing to "write what you feel at the time" to further your low opinion of PCGS.)))

 

Huh? I'd love for you to point out ALL of the PCGS-bashing threads we've started. Oppps, wait - there aren't any!

 

(((Seems to me that it just might be the fact that you "write what you feel at the time" with no regards to consistency or the facts.)))

 

I can't disagree with that! Now, would you kindly name a single living, breathing person in this world who is never inconsistent?

 

(((Perhaps the best solution is for all of us to talk coins.)))

 

I can tell by THE EXAMPLE YOU'RE SETTING that you're real committed to that.

 

I needn't waste much time responding to the rest of your diatribe, because it can be summed up in three words:

 

nitpick NITPICK NITPICK

 

James

 

Oh, by the way, I happen to like the word "pathetic", and I'll use it whenever I want, and I don't care if you think it's inconsistent. The simple solution of it bothers you, is don't read my posts. Besides, it'll save you a lot of the time that you spend nitpicking my posts.

[Tradedollarnut]

Pathetic.

 

 

You're right - it has a nice ring to it.....

[James_OldeTowne]

I knew you would take a liking to it! Now, just smiiiiiiile when you say it. You're going to feel so much better.