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Brown or Red Lincolns

Started by CHABSENTIA,

18 posts in this topic

CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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Posted

I need some help as I am not sure of something.I have been going through some tubes of loose Lincolns and have started at the latest dates .So far I have went through about 40 1966 and about 30 1962D.

 

 

Many of them are a what I would guess would be a bright orange like color and some are a brown color. I put a 2X magnifying glass on the bright colored ones and moving it in and out you can see the detail/lines on the steps of the memorial building on the reverse. on several of them.

 

I am not sure of the designation as I was looking at ones on E BAY and I don't know if its the scan or what but it looks like to me that the ones that are brown colored have a RD designation.Doesn't the RD stand for Red which I would think would be the bright ones or does the RD mean soemthing else?

 

 

Thanks

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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From your post it seems the coins are raw and not in a third party slab so it really doesn't matter what the seller claimed if the coins say otherwise.

 

There are lots of "doctored" coins that have been professionally graded in the past, especially when the services were newer and more naive. This artificially colored coins can turn from red to whatever color over time, even in the slabs.

 

When I took an ANA grading seminar a few years ago, they had an example of an artificially toned red IHC in an NGC holder. It was a good example at how clever the coin doctors are and they continue to play the cat and mouse game with the services seeing what they can get away with.

 

Eventually, the TPGS's will get wise. Remember a couple of years ago that PCGS expose a micro "O" variety that had been recognized for 100 years as contemporary counterfeits. They were so good that they went 100 years unnoticed as such. It too comparing the many to discover that they all have the same tooling diagnostics.

 

Guess I'm rambling but I hope the info helps. (thumbs u

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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The Coins have not been doctored. I have had them since the 70s. I have about eight or nine tubes of pennies. Most of them are in the forties and are a brown color .I found them when I cleaned out a safe deposit box. There is one circulated 1929. I looked in the red book and the mint made a zillion of them in that year compared to others.

 

 

I might have misleaded by describing them as a sort of orange. These are real bright looking but look like a freshly minted copper penny .So I guess you would say a copper color?

 

Some of the 1962 Ds are a brown color and some are the bright color as if they just came from the Mint.The confusing part to me is when I looked on EBAY and the holder says RD they look brown to me. Is this because of the scan.? I would say that my brighter ones look the color of a proof coin .

 

Most of the 1966 are the brighter color and about half of the 1962D are brown.Is the brown ones because of age etc.?

 

 

I am on my laptop now so later this afternoon I will scan a couple when I can get to my Desktop.The ones that say RD on EBAY or in an NGC slab. Minr are raw and I have had them since the 70s or earlier.

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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Here we go. Sorry for so many of them.The 1919s,1920 and 1929 are pretty well circulated and I doubt if ir would be feasible for NCS to clean them up but thats my opinion.They are brown. The 1962 and 1963 seem to be in between brown and the brighter copper color on the 1964 and 1965. Also the scan didn't pick it up well but the steps on the reverse of the 1962 -1964 and especially the 1966 are well detailed and separated.

 

1. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1919so.jpg

2. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1919sr.jpg

3. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1920ob.jpg

4. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1929O.jpg

5. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1929r.jpg

6. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1962o.jpg

7. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1962r.jpg

8. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1963o.jpg

9. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1963r.jpg

10. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1964o.jpg

11. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1964r.jpg

12. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1966o.jpg

13. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1966r.jpg

14. http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/CHABSENTIA/1920r.jpg

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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Its the scan. In hand the 1962 and 1963 look like the scan of the 1966 and the 1966 in hand looks like a brand new piece of copper and is much brighter.

 

What determines the grade? You can tell from the scan of the 1966 that the steps are clear. Looks much better in hand under a 2x magnifying glass. Figure in the middle of the memorial can be seen. I think you can even see it in the scan.

 

 

In hand the 1964 and 1966 look like a brand new copper penny.

 

 

Would you send the 1919s and the 1920 to NCS?

 

Thanks

 

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TomB

TomB

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Would you send the 1919s and the 1920 to NCS?

It would be a complete waste of money to send either of those coins to NCS since the "conservation" evaluation or fee would be as much or more the value of each coin.

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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Thanks. That was my thoughts but I wanted other opinions. I saw on EBay where there were holdered NGc Pennies in certain grades going for over $200.00. I think they were 1962 D in certain grades.

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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I am curious why you keep mentioning something about that steps? Overall condition certainly matters when grading lincolns etc but the only coin steps really matter on is a jefferson Nickel hm

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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I am not sure if a Linclon is graded in FS etc. This is not the problem.I would imagine that if the coin is so circulated that it blurs the lines on the steps that it will receive a lesser grade thanone where the lones on the steps and other details clearly stand out.

 

 

So I guess my question would be if the details on the reverse such as the statue in the Memorial building as well as clearly defined steps helps to determine the grade. Since nobody wants to grade the 1962 D and later then what would determine an MS 65 or MS66 ?

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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On lincolns cents.....the steps really don't come in the play when people discuss grade and strike....only on nickels. With that said....if the coin had a weak reverse strike which could potentially be noticable on the steps then it may cause the coin to grade lower.

 

As far as the 62-D....honestly the pictures are a bit out of focus and the lighting is sub par to grade from but from what I can see the coin is most likely a 65 or 66 RB with a staple scratch on the reverse which would cause it to net grade down to maybe a MS62 or MS63 but it would get body bagged at any of the top TPG's so the grade is irrelevant.

 

I have had quite a few lincolns in the MS64-MS66 range come back from NGC so I can help with some high res scans that show typical marks for the grade on wheat cents. Haven't had any 67's come back recently but if and when I do I can add that to the post?

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ant

ant

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pennies do not get designations of full steps. there is a book "photograde" grading guide. it is helpfull. also each coin world mag has different grading guides each issue. also there is a lil grade info in the red book.

 

when it comes to grading it is subjective, but things like nics and dings and rim damage and other things lower the grade or BODY BAG depending. there are even posters to help grade certin coins.

 

i looked and dont have a penny grading guide from Coin World sorry.

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CHABSENTIA

CHABSENTIA

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Not really any lighting unless you consider that they were in a scanner and only the brief light while it was scanning. I wasn't aware that there was a staple mark on it but I will check it.

 

 

Again I wasn't referring to fulls teps or a number of steps. Just the fact that with my 2x magnifying glass that the lines on the steps were visible and definite and you can see the landscaping and the statue in the memorial building.

 

 

I have a red book but it only gives general descriptions for a grade. I do have an ANA grading guide if I can find it.

 

Thanks for the help. If you do have a few pictures such as you mnetioned then I would like to see a few. I have a bunch more tubes of wheat pennies but they are definitely brown and are mostly in the 1940s and circulated. I showed the memorials as they are the better grades but I only have about 75 total and most of them are 1964 and 1966 with a few 1962 D and 1963D. There was also a 1980 and a 2004 and I think a 1960 but nothing to get excited about if I am correct.

 

 

Thanks for the help.

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Keigwin

Keigwin

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Thanks. That was my thoughts but I wanted other opinions. I saw on EBay where there were holdered NGc Pennies in certain grades going for over $200.00. I think they were 1962 D in certain grades.

A 62-D RD in MS67 is probably in that ballpark, maybe more. Any early 60's in MS67-RD. But these cents you're talking about are worth less than a $1 each, some 10 cents or less.

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Conder101

Conder101

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The steps are not of much importance in grading Memorial cents because their presence was depenant on the condition of the master hub. Back in 1959 the steps were clear and sharp but that same master hub was used for years and by the mid 60's the steps were pretty much gone and aren't even visible on proof coins. Eventually the reverse master hub was replaced and the steps become clear again for a couple years and then fade aay again. The reverse master hub is now replaced more often so it is easier to find cents with step details in recent years. The steps can also fade out in years known for good steps if the dies are used too long. The steps are very fine details and they are perpendicular to the direction of metal flow during striking which makes them wear rapidly on the die.

 

Remember a couple of years ago that PCGS expose a micro "O" variety that had been recognized for 100 years as contemporary counterfeits.

Also remember that NGC condemned them 8 years before PCGS "exposed" them. In fact PCGS was the last of the major TPG to stop slabbing them.

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