Thanks to bajablu for my first large cent Die Variety

[dooly]

I recently purchased bajablu's spare Grellman "The die varieties of large cents 1840-1857" and thanks to this book i found this little gem in France

 

 

as i am new to these varieties i tentatively say it is an N-14 with a rarity of 4 as to which die state it is this part has me a little confused as the note says " all rim break states of N-14 are quite rare, the most common being the terminal state with 8 examples known" what do they mean terminal ? with all rim breaks showing ?

What grade for the coin as it seems dam good to me !!

 

any information greatly received ..Ps cheers for the book

 

 

[CoinZip]

Nice looking large cent.........

[physics-fan3.14]

Nice looking large cent.........

 

I agree. As to variety, don't ask me :shrug:

[dleonard-3]

Are you planning on collecting Large Cents by die variety? If so, you've got a MONSTEROUS hill to climb. There are so many die varieties for each date, it will make your head swim. And collecting different die states of a specific variety is the territory of specialists that still live with their mothers and have nothing else to do with their time or money . I know collectors that collect Half Cents by die variety (I'm one of them). But I only collect "RED BOOK" varieties in the large cents - and that still seems like an impossible set to complete.

 

I would grade your 1850 a nice AU. The rim breaks are interesting, but since I'm not a specialist, they are kind of distracting to me. If I saw this coin at auction, I would bid around the XF level and If I won the bid, I would probably try to re-sell it to one of those specialists with more dollars than sense.

[Conder101]

You need to contact Bob Grellman about that cent! Yes it is the N-14. Yes by terminal he means the latest die state with all the rim cuds. Now here is the question are you using the second or third edition of Grellman? I have the second edition and in it the terminal state of N-14 only has FOUR rim cuds, yours has five with a possible sixth one. So yours is later than the terminal state shown in my book. Even if the third edition does show this as the terminal state, you still have an R-7 coin If it is later than the terminal state shown in the third edition then you have an R-8 coin. (And there are still terminal die state specialists collecting the late dates.) No matter what you have an important cent there.

[jesbroken]

Great find, Dooly. Congrats! (thumbs u

[bsshog40]

Nice looking large cent.........

 

(thumbs u

[dooly]

You need to contact Bob Grellman about that cent! Yes it is the N-14. Yes by terminal he means the latest die state with all the rim cuds. Now here is the question are you using the second or third edition of Grellman? I have the second edition and in it the terminal state of N-14 only has FOUR rim cuds, yours has five with a possible sixth one. So yours is later than the terminal state shown in my book. Even if the third edition does show this as the terminal state, you still have an R-7 coin If it is later than the terminal state shown in the third edition then you have an R-8 coin. (And there are still terminal die state specialists collecting the late dates.) No matter what you have an important cent there.

 

Cheers conder you as usual.. the book i have is 2001.. so it seems like have found a little belter then.. it was very hard to place a bid on this coin as there was no price guide in the book so i ended up paying normal coin EF money for it which i thought was OK..i cannot wait to receive it from over the channel and see if there are 5 or 6 rim cuds

 

dooly

[dooly]

Are you planning on collecting Large Cents by die variety? If so, you've got a MONSTEROUS hill to climb. There are so many die varieties for each date, it will make your head swim. And collecting different die states of a specific variety is the territory of specialists that still live with their mothers and have nothing else to do with their time or money . I know collectors that collect Half Cents by die variety (I'm one of them). But I only collect "RED BOOK" varieties in the large cents - and that still seems like an impossible set to complete.

 

I would grade your 1850 a nice AU. The rim breaks are interesting, but since I'm not a specialist, they are kind of distracting to me. If I saw this coin at auction, I would bid around the XF level and If I won the bid, I would probably try to re-sell it to one of those specialists with more dollars than sense.

 

You think that's bad i also collect shield nickles there are a couple of varieties to collect in that series also guess that's why they call me the "daft Englishman" i like the grade you gave for the coin makes me happy on how much i payed for it (thumbs u

[Conder101]

The picture clearly shows at least five cuds, and the 87 book only shows 4 (No cud over TE of UNITED) and the picture seems to show further breakage to the right of the last cud. How may cuds are shown in the 2001 book?

[bajablu]

Im glad you like the book and are using it. I know my copy is crying to me to give her some use lately. Im I see 5 retained die breaks aswell.

 

Nice pick up and great looking coin.

[dooly]

The picture clearly shows at least five cuds, and the 87 book only shows 4 (No cud over TE of UNITED) and the picture seems to show further breakage to the right of the last cud. How may cuds are shown in the 2001 book?

 

Hi conder..

 

Info from book

 

a. Crisscrossed lines at throat and dull lines and dentils over ICA. (Rare)

b. Lines at Denticals over ICA gone. Lines down to left at through still visible.

c. Lines at through and E in ONE gone.

d. Rim cud break at D-ST (Very Rare)

e. Additional rim cud break at TAT. (Unique)

f. Additional rim cud break at F-A (Extremely Rare)

g. Additional rim cud break at ES.(Extremely Rare).

h. Additional rim cud break at OF.(Extremely Rare).

g. Additional rim cud break at TE in UNITED. (Very Rare).

 

 

but i am having trouble seeing the 3rd one of F-3 in the picture ?

 

 

hope this info helps as it is making me confused as it dose not seem to add up in the progression

[Conder101]

No it makes sense, the f-3 cud is very thin and does not extend far out over the rim like the other five do. Grellman didn't show it in the 87 book, probably because it's thinness doesn't make it apparent. It's more like a crumbling of the edge of the die rather than a cud where a chunk broke out. With the description you gave from the 2001 book I'd say you definitely have an example of the terminal state. It would still be good to contact Grellman so he can update the information to 9 specimens known.

[Just Bob]

Only 9 specimens known?!

 

Way to go, Dooly! Great find! (thumbs u

 

 

 

This rarity can be pedigreed as the "Daft Englishman Specimen" when your heirs sell it!

[dooly]

No it makes sense, the f-3 cud is very thin and does not extend far out over the rim like the other five do. Grellman didn't show it in the 87 book, probably because it's thinness doesn't make it apparent. It's more like a crumbling of the edge of the die rather than a cud where a chunk broke out. With the description you gave from the 2001 book I'd say you definitely have an example of the terminal state. It would still be good to contact Grellman so he can update the information to 9 specimens known.

 

(thumbs u excellent

 

how would i go about contacting Grellman about this

[Conder101]

I'll see if I can get you his address and maybe e-mail a little later today. I'm at work but I have his address at home.