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do you think toned coins are worth more?????

Started by msmhappy,

26 posts in this topic

msmhappy

msmhappy

Posted
Posted

 

yesterday, (sat) i went to the 37th annual fresno coin show, sponsered by the fresno numismatic society. it was as expected, small. with small local dealers, selling their coins for super high prices. unfortunatly, i did not run into and good deals, and left empty handed!!!

 

however, at one dealers booth, the dealer proceeded to tell a prospective buyer about toning... the buyer was eyeballing a very nicely toned morgan. and then, he noticed the price!!! and asked, "why is this so much?".. this dealer obviously seeing dollar signs proceeded to say, "toned coins are worth more!!, the toning on a coin gives it a rustic, old, look, which increases its value!!!!!! unfortunatly,, the guy fell for it and bought the coin. frown.giffrown.gif

 

now keep in mind, this was a very nice morgan!! with a good solid, even strike! nice clean fields too!! I probably would give it a grade of ms64. but this guy payed too much for this coin, probably in the range of 40 to 50 dollars too much!!! smile.gifsmile.gif

 

so, that brings us to the question, (which im sure has been raised before)

 

" are toned coins worth more than white ones?????? "

 

i personally dont think so. now , keep in mind, i do love toned coins. however, my personal choice is blast white. I cannnot see myself paying a premium for a coin just because it has toning. its still going to have the same grade!! its still going to have the same fields!!! its still the SAME COIN, worth the SAME amount!!!!!!!

 

now, for those of you who are possesed by toned coins,,,, go for it!!! if thats what you like. i can respect your choice in choosing toned over white. it dosent matter what you collect, as long as you enjoy doing it!!! grin.gifgrin.gif

 

mike

 

--------------------------------

 

dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!! grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

 

 

 

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Bustman-migration

Bustman-migration

Posted
Posted

Pretty toned coins are worth more for sure. Thats just the preference right now for most ( not all ) collectors. It wasn't too long ago that most collectors prefered white coins, and they carried a premium.

I will pay the price for a gorgeously toned coin. To me, white coins, unless they are truly spectacular (DMPL, etc), are just a bit too blah for me.

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

My mantra is "Buy what you like with money you can afford to lose".

 

Those who are familiar with me will know that I love superbly toned coinage but that I also love problem-free, original circulated coinage and, believe it or not, white coins with great patina. That's just my preference.

 

I have written several articles on my web site about toning and also about my opinion on the toning premium. You may want to read them.

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nwcs

nwcs

Posted
Posted

Attractively toned coins are worth more. Just as attractive untoned coins are worth more. The reason? Eye appeal. Regardless of the coloration, it is the eye appeal that sells the coin. And superior eye appeal, will always carry the coin's value higher than the grade.

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Wihlborg

Wihlborg

Posted
Posted

Mike,

 

" are toned coins worth more than white ones?????? "

 

i personally dont think so. now , keep in mind, i do love toned coins. however, my personal choice is blast white. I cannnot see myself paying a premium for a coin just because it has toning. its still going to have the same grade!! its still going to have the same fields!!! its still the SAME COIN, worth the SAME amount!!!!!!!

 

You summed up my feeling about this issue very well. I also like blast white coins as much as a nicely toned one, so I will not pay the sometimes outrageous premiums that are asked for them (by the way depending on the coin, I do not think that a premium of $50 is really that bad if the coin had really nice toning), but I will buy a toned coin if no premium or a reasonable premium is being asked. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I believe that toning is subjective, what one person thinks is beautiful another may think is ugly. If you pay an outrageous premium for toning who’s to say that when it comes time for you to sell that coin you will be able to find anyone else willing to pay anywhere near what you paid, they may not value the toning as much as you did. 893frustrated.gif

 

Most of the dealers I know would not pay those types of premiums when buying a toned coin, they have told me this themselves. I find it funny that a lot of the coins that some dealers call monster toned or premium toned I would not want in my collection if they were free. confused-smiley-013.gif I say this only to make my point that toning is and always will be subjective. Every collector has to make their own decision on how much of a premium they are willing to pay for toning that they like. smile.gif

 

John

 

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

msmhappy, it depends upon the toning and upon the preferences of the buyer.

 

Here are a few examples of toned coins that I would (and did) pay more for than if they had not been toned - actually, in the case of the 1938-D Buffalo nickel, because of its wide availability, even in MS67 grade, I typically wont even purchase one, if it's not attractively toned.

 

31475511.jpg

 

21347391.jpg

 

021000407.jpg

 

Tom - thanks for the explanation about people usually posting attachemnts, rather than images.

 

 

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GDJMSP

GDJMSP

Posted
Posted

I think the same question can be applied to almost any coin. Eye appeal is after all the most subjective quality a coin can have. But are those who buy toned coins for outrageous premiums any more guilty of paying too much than those who pay too much for blast white coins ? No - I don't think so. Like msmhappy said - it just depends on what ya like.

 

Personally - I like both toned coins and blast white coins. And I'll pay a small premium above the grade for both under the right circumstances. But I will not pay outrageous premiums for either.

 

At a show I attended this weekend I was looking for Peace dollars with toning that appeals to me. I don't care if everybody else likes the toning or not - if I don't like I won't buy it. Anyway - there was what I thought was a beautifully toned '22 Peace ( reverse only ). The toning was nice and even across the entire surface of the coin and exhibited all colors of the rainbow. It was gorgeous !!

 

But this coin was NGC graded MS62 and in my opinion it was graded acurately. Now that didn't bother me either for grade is not my only requirement in deciding to buy a coin. Especially when I already have a high grade example. I was interested in this coin for the way it looked.

 

Now this particular dealer is always at the local shows and he of remembers me. He also remembers that I am not the type of collector who will pay much in the way of premiums in most cases. So when I asked the price of the coin his reply was " $100 - not negotiable. Nicely toned Peace dollars are hard to find. " Well I said that I agreed with him - they are hard to find. But thank you very much I'll pass.

 

Now understand - it was not the amount of money for I could to spend $100 and not worry about it. But the coin was simply not worth that much and I don't care how pretty it was.

 

Later on I found another example - a '24 - that appealed to me just as much as the first coin. This coin had very nice even gold toning around the rims and the edges of the fields - a beautiful coin. I graded the coin a solid 63 + with perhaps a shot at 64. The price for this coin was $50 - I bought it no questions asked.

 

Now I never used to like toned coins. But in the past year or two I have developed a taste for them and they appeal to me - so I buy them. But it seems to me that there are too many collectors who currently buy these coins and are paying outrageous prices - not because they like them so much - but because they want everybody else to tell them how much THEY like them.

 

To me this is foolish. Sure - I like to brag about my coins as much as the next guy - sometimes even more. Nothing wrong with that. But to pay 5x or 10x the value of a coin just so others will tell you how much they like your coin - well you can keep it. That's not for me.

 

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braddick

braddick

Posted
Posted

As stated, Collectors pay more for Eye Appeal. That very well may be a brilliant, dripping in full luster, original Morgan dollar with a full strike and no distractions, or it is the coins as Mark posted above.

 

I had an opportunity to look at Terry Larsen's "A" Box of colorful GEM/Superb GEM Morgans yesterday and walked away inspired and feeling great! I would not have had the same experience or felt the blood rush with a tray of white coins.

 

We collect not only the COIN but the experience from owning the coin and what it feels like to view the coin. THAT is what we pay a premium on. If you don't get the same feeling when viewing a toned coin then of course, logic would dictate you don't pay a premium, nor should you.

 

As a side note: I'm always grateful there are Collectors who don't "get" colorful toning because if they did prices would be even higher and they're high enough as it is!

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Wihlborg

Wihlborg

Posted
Posted

GDJMSP,

 

But it seems to me that there are too many collectors who currently buy these coins and are paying outrageous prices - not because they like them so much - but because they want everybody else to tell them how much THEY like them.

 

To me this is foolish. Sure - I like to brag about my coins as much as the next guy - sometimes even more. Nothing wrong with that. But to pay 5x or 10x the value of a coin just so others will tell you how much they like your coin - well you can keep it. That's not for me.

 

I could not have said it any better.

 

John

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Dry

Dry

Posted
Posted
Attractively toned coins are worth more. Just as attractive untoned coins are worth more. The reason? Eye appeal. Regardless of the coloration, it is the eye appeal that sells the coin. And superior eye appeal, will always carry the coin's value higher than the grade.

 

EXACTLY! 893applaud-thumb.gif

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SilverEagleCoins

SilverEagleCoins

Posted
Posted

I was surfing through the various coin sites with my 6 yr old godson . He just learned about rust in school so he wanted to know if coins rust. I told him no but a different reaction can take place that the colors can change. So I popped up a few pics of monster toners. He wanted to know why someone would put a drop of gas on the coins. I said what do you mean? He said it looks gasoline floating on the water like he sees sometimes from his daddy's boat. Of course he was taught that gas on the water is a bad thing so he equated gas on a coin as a bad thing.

 

Thought it was a cute story.

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spy88

spy88

Posted
Posted

As someone earlier in the thread said, toning is subjective, as is eye appeal. You may decide to buy a toner just because it is so pretty to you but someone else may say that it is fugly. I do not care, personally if a coin is toned or not---if I need it because of grade for my collection, I will buy it, toned or not---blast white or not. To me, toning is something a coin has or does not have and carries no weight in my decision to buy.

 

I do have many toned Jeffs in my collection, but it was the COIN and its condition I bought, not the tone or eye appeal.

 

IMHO, This is akin to buying a car. If you want basic transportation, the color or model should not carry much weight in your decision to buy---only if it is mecanically sound (the date and grade you want/need). BUT, if you want (and can afford) a Ferrari, then color, model and condition definitely factor in (eye appeal and color).

But it still has to be mechanically sound (date and grade).

 

David

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sanmary

sanmary

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Posted

Personally I love toned coins. I also love attractive white coins. I do however prefer toned coins given the choice. Do I think that they are worth more??? Not in general however this does seem to be the current fad. I originally fell in love with toned coins for their beauty, and please understand not all toned coins are equally beautiful or even appealing. Until a couple of years ago at best I was able to purchase at great prices super toners. This isn't the case anymore but I hope when this fad is over a realistic price level will again be seen. Possibly certain toned coins could be considered to have a higher value due to the fact that some people prefer originality whereas toned coins stand a better chance of not having been dipped or cleaned...at least not recently. Then there are the coin doctors.......another topic altogether.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
He said it looks gasoline floating on the water ...
SilverEagleCoins, your son described, what I sometimes refer to, as "oil slick iridescence". It just sounds nicer the way I say it. smile.gif
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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

I got a mixed answer to this one, I'll speak to the Franklin series...

 

It depends, I doubt there is a blast white ms67fbl, (there may just be one, I'm not sure)... The ms67fbl's that I have seen and owned have had STUNNING toning and most are beautifully rainbowed with some very strong Luster. Yeah, these ones command a premium and also the ms66fbl 58d's with rainbows, the ones that greattoning is always selling on Ebay..... To me, nice rainbows on any series warrants a premium....

 

with that said, the 1955 ms66fbl Franklin is extremely scarce if not non-existant in brilliant blast white, in fact, many ms66fbls are extremely scarce in brilliant since the majority of the ultra GEMs are pulled from mint sets that have toned because of the Ag reaction with O2 + Sulphur.........

 

A brilliant blast white blazer 1955 ms66fbl would trade in the 2 - 3k range, easy, in fact, maybe more...

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BillJones

BillJones

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I like ORIGINAL coins with attractive toning, but in general I’d say that the toned coin market has gotten out of control. Some prices for the really pretty pieces have gotten too high IMO. This as prompted some novice collectors, who are desperate to play the game, to buy just about anything with color on it. Across the street you will see pictures of coins with really ugly dull brown or black toning with hopeful leads like “How do you like this toning?” or “How much of a premium is this worth?”

 

This toning craze as also prompted coin doctors to ruin a lot of perfect OK coins just to meet this insatiable demand. It’s darn shame, but every generation of collectors seems to have a bug up their tail for a certain look. Back in the ‘60s and ‘70s white coins were the rage a lot of nice coins got dipped. Now toning is the fad and a lot of nice coins are getting AT’d. Between the two I’ll take dipped over AT’d because it does less damage to the coin, and sometimes can actually help a piece.

 

I wish more collectors and dealers would simply leave the vast majority of coins alone. The old timers used to say that we were just custodians of these coins for future generations. As such it was our responsibility to preserve these pieces was well as we can. Right now I’d say that we have a lot of very bad custodians. devil.gif

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SeattleSlammer-migration

SeattleSlammer-migration

Posted
Posted

I definitely think beautifully, naturally toned coins are worth A LOT more. Why? Because they are so much more rare and in my eyes, desirable. In a case full of MS68 glistening white Morgans, real vibrant color (regardless of the coin's grade) is going to stand out like a beacon in the darkness. It's unique. It's coin art.

 

This beacon is a MS64 NGC STAR coin, and well worth its hefty premium. A white 64 1886 is going to cost you about $45. Good luck finding this kind of color for that...and if you do, let me know so I can get in on the action!

 

EB0966-EBAY.jpg

 

 

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

Welcome, SeattleSlammer. That is a beautiful coin, did you happen to buy it from Mike DeFalco? I ask because it looks like the type of image quality he typically puts on his site.

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Leothelion

Leothelion

Posted
Posted
Attractively toned coins are worth more. Just

as attractive untoned coins are worth more. The reason?

Eye appeal. Regardless of the coloration, it is the

eye appeal that sells the coin. And superior eye

appeal, will always carry the coin's value higher

than the grade.

 

Sadly attractive toning will also carry the coin

into a higher grade then it's true condition grade.

As I was reminded in another thread, most TGCs

will market upgrade a coin due to it's toning to

improve it's marketability. A coin can grade MS63

but with exceptional MS67 toning, the coin's grade

will get bumped up 1 or 2 grades. This is wrong!

A beautiful toned MS63 coin, the toning will help

sell this lower grade MS coin, regardless. We

don't need a bunch of so called expert grading

doing this to the coin market. The rule

of thumb here is to look beyond the toning,

always check for hidden flaws in the coin. Does

the coin really warrants it's given grade. Be

careful buying these colorful coins. They are

flooding the market right now and many are

not selling, which is good news.

 

Leo

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

Some day we might end up with a grading designation for toning that will replace the current practice of bumping up grades a few points for great color. Years ago, before the services used the cameo and ultra cameo designations they would give a cameo Proof grades like PR-67 to reflect that. Ordinary brilliant Proofs got lower grades even if their state of preservation rated a higher number.

 

The trouble with a toning designation system is that there are many variations in toning. Unlike the cameo look, which is easy to define, toning comes in many colors and many forms. Working out a uniform system would be a challenge.

 

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msmhappy

msmhappy

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  • Author
Posted

 

leo, are you serious??? please tell me its not true!!! Are dealers acctually bumping up the grade a few points because of toning?????

 

the toning on a coin does give the coin a nice apperance, but, ....... NO, im sorry, it does not improve the grade!!! as i said in the beginning, the coin will have the same fields, the same marks, the SAME GRADE!!!!!!!!!

 

and i do agree with you leo, this is wrong!!!!!

 

mike

 

----------------------

 

dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!! grin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gifgrin.gif

 

 

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291fifth

291fifth

Posted
Posted

Are toned coins worth more? If you are buying from a dealer he may well want a premium, sometimes a big premium, for attractively toned coins. Should you pay the premium? Here is what I suggest. If you are someone who really likes toned coins always bring a few really nice ones with you when you go to coin shops or shows. If you see a toned coin you like, and the dealer wants a hefty premium for it, take out your own toned coins and offer them for sale to the dealer. Is he willing to pay a hefty premium for them? I'll bet he isn't. Now think about whether you want to buy his toned coin for the big premium he is asking. It has always been my experience that dealers want to SELL specialty items such as toned coins for big premiums. However, when it comes to BUYING such items they always seem to have "too many in stock right now". I know it is tough to do but collectors need to think like dealers when making purchases. Spend your hard earned money wisely.

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chinook

chinook

Posted
Posted

A pretty coin- nicely toned or blast white- will always attract more bidders and hence bring more money, just as a pretty girl will attract more interest and competition at a dance.

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GDJMSP

GDJMSP

Posted
Posted

Always ?? Well about 2 years ago they didn't. Then it was blast white coins bringing the premiums. You could buy nice, sometimes very nice, toned coins for less than ask.

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