grade opinion on a 1863 First in War, First in Peace token

[coinsarefun]

Can you give me grade opinion. Is it worth grading?

 

 

 

[harvey8542]

GREAT token (thumbs u

[PovertyRow]

I assume there is a titch more red in hand? If so I would think an MS64 RB - FR (Full Roof)

[coinsarefun]

I assume there is a titch more red in hand? If so I would think an MS64 RB - FR (Full Roof)

 

 

 

 

 

Aahh, full roof. I'll tell you I am always learning. And yes there is more red.

 

One last question please... Is the 176/271 numbers correct?

 

Thanks

[James_OldeTowne]

I will guess MS-64 BN. Sorry I can't help with attribution.

 

Assuming it isn't a rare variety, I definitely would not get it certified.

[BillJones]

First of all the attribution is wrong as shown, not that it really makes a difference. The correct Fuld numbers are 174/272a. (a is for a copper token.) As such it is still an R-1 rated token and very common.

 

The token has Mint State sharpness or very close to it, but the color has been "enhanced." I've seen this on high grade, usually common tokens from time to time. It is done with a brush and some Blue Ribbon.

 

I'd grade the token something like MS-63, brown and sell it as such. I'm not sure if NGC will grade it, but if they do, it would come back MS-64, brown or R&B if they ignore the enhancement.

 

To me it's not worth sending out for grading, but prices on CWTs have gone up so much that I might not right about that. Still if it were my token I would not spend the money to have it graded. The piece is very common and while it is interesting, it's not a variety to get an advanced CWT collector's blood pressure elevated.

[Just Bob]

Thank you for that lesson, Bill. I had assumed that the coloring was from handling, (once again, proving that I can't grade from pictures ), and would have said AU55.

 

BTW, why do you suppose the Blue Ribbon didn't turn the surfaces blue?

[Raybo55]

I'm not sure about the grade but I do know it's very COOL!

 

 

Ray

[SkyMan]

I'm not sure about the grade but I do know it's very COOL!

 

Sweet looking token, Stefanie!

[dooly]

"grade it " its way better than mine i am going for am MS 63 on yours..... mind mine has i way more interesting First than yours

 

[BillJones]

Here is an interesting addendum to for your token.

 

In northern Indiana there was very talented gentleman named Henry D. Higgins. Higgins earned his living by make eye glasses, barometers, guns, false teeth and during the Civil War era, tokens. Higgins made his own dies, and he got his designs from two sources: his own ingenuity and tokens that he obtained probably from circulation.

 

Higgins’ homemade dies were noted for their primitive charm. They featured trumpets, leaves, flourishes, flowers and crudely spaced lettering. Higgins’ dies that were made from other sources were copied from other Civil War tokens. It is not known exactly how he made these copies. Some have speculated that he got his hands on some discarded matrix dies from the Scovill Company, which made many Civil War and Hard Times tokens. A more probable source is that Higgins used tokens he found to impress the images into the die faces. The result was a piece with less detail and sharpness, but still a credible piece.

 

Today collectors call Higgins’ tokens Indiana Primitives (IP for short), and they are very popular. Higgins copied your piece, die #174, which is now listed in Fuld as die # 175. This die was coupled with three other reverses, and here one of those varieties, Fuld 175/403a.

 

 

For many years, Civil War token collectors did not know the identity of the maker of the Indiana Primitives. Then in early 1970s an old lady came forward with evidence that was she was Henry D. Higgins’ granddaughter. She wrote about how her mother, “had helped daddy make the coins.” The true identity of the maker of the Indiana Primitives was established which furthered the enjoyment of these pieces for collectors.

 

And this is a Mint State example (my grade MS-64, with a nice tinge of red), and it is one of the best IPs in my collection and one of the better examples that I have seen.

[rons]

Bill, What a great story. Thanks for sharing the information and your example. It is terrific. Thanks again

[coinsarefun]

Here is an interesting addendum to for your token.

 

In northern Indiana there was very talented gentleman named Henry D. Higgins. Higgins earned his living by make eye glasses, barometers, guns, false teeth and during the Civil War era, tokens. Higgins made his own dies, and he got his designs from two sources: his own ingenuity and tokens that he obtained probably from circulation.

 

Higgins’ homemade dies were noted for their primitive charm. They featured trumpets, leaves, flourishes, flowers and crudely spaced lettering. Higgins’ dies that were made from other sources were copied from other Civil War tokens. It is not known exactly how he made these copies. Some have speculated that he got his hands on some discarded matrix dies from the Scovill Company, which made many Civil War and Hard Times tokens. A more probable source is that Higgins used tokens he found to impress the images into the die faces. The result was a piece with less detail and sharpness, but still a credible piece.

 

Today collectors call Higgins’ tokens Indiana Primitives (IP for short), and they are very popular. Higgins copied your piece, die #174, which is now listed in Fuld as die # 175. This die was coupled with three other reverses, and here one of those varieties, Fuld 175/403a.

 

 

For many years, Civil War token collectors did not know the identity of the maker of the Indiana Primitives. Then in early 1970s an old lady came forward with evidence that was she was Henry D. Higgins’ granddaughter. She wrote about how her mother, “had helped daddy make the coins.” The true identity of the maker of the Indiana Primitives was established which furthered the enjoyment of these pieces for collectors.

 

And this is a Mint State example (my grade MS-64, with a nice tinge of red), and it is one of the best IPs in my collection and one of the better examples that I have seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is an amazing story and awesome token. Do you know how many exist? And how often do they come available.

 

Thanks again

[JRocco]

Very cool stuff.

While I do not know much about CWT, I was able to find a nice one recently. Don't know much about it, but it is cool.

Sorry for this poor pic, but I took it on the go.

Here it is so others can enjoy.

[BillJones]

That is an amazing story and awesome token. Do you know how many exist? And how often do they come available.

 

This Washington IP (175/403a) is one of the most common Indiana Primitives. It is rated as an R-4, which in the Fuld rarity scale places the estimated population at 201 to 500 pieces. I would say around 300 would be a good guess.

 

Mint State examples like this one are quite scarce. The average grade for most IP tokens is VF, which is pretty low relative to the average for "no problem" Civil War tokens. Most circulated Civil War tokens grade EF or so. Most Civil War tokens did not circulate for that long. The span was from 1863 to mid 1864 when Congress passed laws that outlawed their use. It would seem that the IP tokens continued to circulate after the Civil War was over given the evidence of hard use that can be seen on most pieces.

 

Overall I would guess that there are perhaps 2,000 to 3,000 IP Civil War tokens left. That estimate includes pieces with problems. Indiana Primitives do show up in major token auctions and in the inventories of major dealers fairly often, but your collection will be limited by the varieties that do show up. Some varieites, like the IP Monitor tokens are very popular sell about as fast as the dealers put them out if the prices are at all reasonable. Other varieties are flat out rare and very, very hard to find.

 

Here is an IP Monitor token and the "mother" of the piece. You will see that Higgins copied the design and then added the dentiles to the edge because that feature did not come out well on his copy.

 

IP Monitor (238/405b)

 

 

"Regular" Monitor (237/423a)