Seems all coins, slabbed and raw losing value fast...?

[proofs03-migration]

Is it just me or is the market devaluing precious metal and all coins. It have seen a trend over a small recent time that even key date coins are going for a good bargain. I don't mind bargains, but is it me or is everybody seeing the same thing?

 

Steve

[RobertB]

I'm going to agree with you here. All the medias are saying the market is "on fire," but I think the cool is coming in. I have seen many key dates and others becoming saturated in the market. I believe the first sign of true collapse will be the ultra high grade moderns dropping like lead balloons.

Personally, I don't buy unless I'm getting dealer bid bargains, but even now I'm holding off on almost anything major, at least until FUN. I tend to believe the more people say the market is hot, they're actually just trying to keep the hype up long enough to unload. You don't have to tell people the market is hot when it is such, that'll be obvious.

[MAULEMALL]

Is it just me or is the market devaluing precious metal and all coins. It have seen a trend over a small recent time that even key date coins are going for a good bargain. I don't mind bargains, but is it me or is everybody seeing the same thing?

 

Steve

My local dealer sold 2 1999 silver proof sets today for $205.00 each today.

 

 

There were only 800.000 or so of them minted.

 

People are buying what they want and some are saving for the holidays.

[gmarguli]

The market is NOT hot. Areas of the market are. Generic stuff has been weak for a long time and goes begging. Lots of stuff has come on the market and gone unsold as greedy people are not getting the prices they want. If the market is so hot, why haven't they sold? Quite a few top pop coins have failed to sell, which tells me the market is cooling off a little.

 

I think that a lot of dealers started to price coins for what they thought they would be selling for tomorrow, rather than what they are selling for today. When that happens, look out.

[MAULEMALL]

Is it just me or is the market devaluing precious metal and all coins. It have seen a trend over a small recent time that even key date coins are going for a good bargain. I don't mind bargains, but is it me or is everybody seeing the same thing?

 

Steve

My local dealer sold 2 1999 silver proof sets today for $205.00 each today.

 

 

There were only 800.000 or so of them minted.

 

People are buying what they want and some are saving for the holidays.

I was looking through the market place and found this.....I may have to go along with Greg......

[Tradedollarnut]

Nice coins sell fast, even if priced strong. Overgraded or grossly overpriced coins sell slow. Sounds like a healthy market to me. Based on what I've seen sell and who I know is playing in the market these days, the industry is just fine.

[proofs03-migration]

I have seen very nice PF70 Silver Eagle sets slabbed, for sale at 500-650 with no takers. These usally sell for $1200. I see 1 ounce slabbed gold Eagles proof for 350-400, no takers. I purchased a 1909 VDB RD and RB NGC MS65+ slabbed for a very good buy (<60) on both. I couldn't let that go. I gave them to my grandson. He is only three, but they will compliment his state quarters I get him. I purchased a three coin Platinum set, minus the 1 ounce for 149. I am not trying to be unmodest here, just saying what I am seeing out there for cheap and no takers. The recent deals I made I did not need, but I can go without food for a few days for those deals. I still like my Silver Eagles above all. They just look so cool with a 3D style look with the frost devices and lettering against the mirror background and the ladies front left leg walking. What can I say.

 

Steve

[michael]

for me

 

the market is not good or bad or hot or cool or alive or dead

 

it is just here

 

if you got coins that are special they sell for a reasonable market price and sometimes many times more

 

and sometimes if you got an extraspecial extraordinary coin it sometimes more often than not sells for a really extraspecial market price

 

usually in all coin markets but not always dreck sells or might not sell at all for a lower to much lower price than as per the above

 

michael

[michael]

just show me in person sight seen what you got to sell

and/or what you are trying to buy then i will tell you if you are dealing with dreck or special coins but i NEED TO SEE THESE SPECIFIC ITEMS IN PERSON SIGHT SEEN

 

if you are dealing with dreck then your thread is well founded

 

if you are dealing with special coins priced fairly well then your thread concerning ALL COINS SLABBED AND RAW LOSING $$ holds absolutely no value

 

michael

 

 

[shadroch]

I just sold a 1999 Silver Proof to a dealer for $180. I offered it on the marketplace but got no offers. Dealer wasn't interested in any of my slabbed statequarters.

[Newmismatist]

I have seen very nice PF70 Silver Eagle sets slabbed, for sale at 500-650 with no takers. These usally sell for $1200. I see 1 ounce slabbed gold Eagles proof for 350-400, no takers.

 

What you are listing ARE NOT rare coins - they're "condition" rarities of very common coins - so as more are slabbed, the price will continue to drop - what are they worth unslabbed? That's about where they'll end up.

[James_OldeTowne]

(((Nice coins sell fast, even if priced strong. Overgraded or grossly overpriced coins sell slow. Sounds like a healthy market to me.))) To me, that sounds like an average market. I mean, that's what you'd expect at any normal time. If the market were "hot", then overgraded and overpriced coins would not sell so slowly, right? No, I agree completely with gmarguli, that the market is definitely not "hot".

 

Now, I think the illusion that the market is "hot" is definitely up there, with record prices paid for coins - from dealer to dealer. That's an artifiical market to me. When a coin is bought by a collector, and it sticks for 20 years, that's a real sale. Too many collectors these days though approach it with a coin-dealer mindset, to buy a coin, keep it for a couple months, then "flip" it. That's an artificial market to me, not made up of collectors.

 

James

[Tradedollarnut]

I very specifically said 'healthy' and avoided the buzzword 'hot'. But you are not in touch with what is truly going on if you think all these coins are being sold dealer to dealer and sitting in their cases until they are resold to another dealer. Nice coins are disappearing off the marketplace to real players and price is of secondary importance.

 

As Michael says, drek will always be slow. As for conditionally rare moderns...well..... at least you'll always be able to spend them!

[IrishMike]

TDN, I don't disagree with your comments, but still it seems to me especially in the Indian Head market a lot of coins are not sticking with collectors very long. Many high priced condition rarities keep popping up for sale at the majors time and time again.

[proofs03-migration]

I hope I didn't tick anyone off here. I promise I did not mean to do this. I am not a seller, I am a collector, there just happened to be a few coins of recenty that I purchased becaused of price. I do however watch the market as I don't know of anyone who has never been curious of the value of their collection. I do enjoy grading and regrading a single coin just to see the area's I have missed before, or the changes as they occur over time.

 

To me, coins are works of art with many secrets that I enjoy finding out. They are a kind of peace maker for me.

 

Please except my apology if I offended anyone. I did not mean to do that in any way. I was only writing an observation and taking a poll at the same time. Sorry.

 

Steve

[cladking]

It's interesting that people are so quick to write off much of the modern market. There is no slow down in any of the entry level coins that I can detect. Wholesale prices are mostly firm to higher across the board for mint sets, proof sets, BU rolls, low grade indians and buffalos etc.

 

I don't do much in the high grade moderns but have seen no retrenchment for any of the regular issue coins. In many cases there are so very few of these in existence that it would be a virtual non event if they did crash.

[Oldtrader3]

I see strong prices for more scarce, better series, collector grade coins (i.e. US Gold). Weaker prices are for high grade modern coins, including series that are more available in higher grades than recent prices would indicate.

 

This correction was inevitable for modern Pop-Tops, high grade proof/business strikes. The economy is still very sluggish (dead would be a better word for the Northwest). This slowing is going to negatively effect spending of disposable income. However, there are some recent indicators that the economy may be slowly starting to turn but it will be 2-3 quarters before things change much.

[SilverEagleCoins]

Maybe it's perception. As a seller you are expecting a better price so you say the markets are cool. As a buyer, everything I want to still so expensive. I do have to admit that "expensive" is relative to what I want to pay and not any of the coin guides or previous prices, etc.

[Newmismatist]

I hope I didn't tick anyone off here. I promise I did not mean to do this. I am not a seller, I am a collector, there just happened to be a few coins of recenty that I purchased becaused of price. I do however watch the market as I don't know of anyone who has never been curious of the value of their collection. I do enjoy grading and regrading a single coin just to see the area's I have missed before, or the changes as they occur over time.

 

To me, coins are works of art with many secrets that I enjoy finding out. They are a kind of peace maker for me.

 

Please except my apology if I offended anyone. I did not mean to do that in any way. I was only writing an observation and taking a poll at the same time. Sorry.

 

Steve

 

I don't think you've offended anyone, it's an observation & worth discussing - we all have our opinions, (well maybe except for me ) & these boards are for exactly what has occurred here - discussing and expressing our points of view.

[spy88]

David Hall of DHRC has a news letter that addressed this issue from the standpoint of what he thought of the market depending on the series involved. I have since "disposed" of it, but I do remember him saying that the market for Lincoln Cents was/is red-hot (no pun intended) and his advice was to BUY-BUY-Buy! He went thru each denomination with his thoughts and recommendations on what one should consider doing in relation to the market as he saw/sees it. He makes no mention in any of his recommendations regarding holding/selling slabbed vs holding/selling raw---just condition and date.

 

As far as my interest (Jeffersons) is concerned, I already knew to unload my

PR69DCam portion from 1976 to present. They are a dime a dozen right now and I lost money with less then a 4 month flip time. Too many with this grade are coming out of all the TGCs and PR70Dcams are being found and slabbed everyday. I personally could not tell the difference between the two grades anyway so sold out my 70DCs too.

 

It is a buyers market and it will ebb and flow like the tide---sometimes a very high tide, sometimes a very low tide. I say just stick to what you KNOW is a good hold

because of cond/rarity and you will not loose money if you are a collector. If you are a dealer or trader, you are looking for a profit from flipping, regardless of the coin involved. They have the harder task of trying to figure the markets next fluctuation and direction.

 

David

[James_OldeTowne]

(((I very specifically said 'healthy' and avoided the buzzword 'hot'. But you are not in touch with what is truly going on if you think all these coins are being sold dealer to dealer and sitting in their cases until they are resold to another dealer. Nice coins are disappearing off the marketplace to real players and price is of secondary importance.))) Tradedollarnut, I read what you're saying, and I agree with you that the market is healthy. I'm just saying that "healthy" is also "average" for the market. Nice coins that disappear from the market - that happens in good and bad times.

 

My comments were realy directed at those dealers who perpretrate all the hype that the market is "hot".

 

Again, I agree with you, the market is it's normal, healthy self these days.

 

James

[Wihlborg]

Steve,

 

I don't see anything for you to be sorry about. It seems that you started a thought provoking thread and it generated a lot of responses, just what the boards are supposed to do.

 

John

 

[gmarguli]

David Hall of DHRC has a news letter that addressed this issue from the standpoint of what he thought of the market depending on the series involved. I have since "disposed" of it, but I do remember him saying that the market for Lincoln Cents was/is red-hot (no pun intended) and his advice was to BUY-BUY-Buy! He went thru each denomination with his thoughts and recommendations on what one should consider doing in relation to the market as he saw/sees it. He makes no mention in any of his recommendations regarding holding/selling slabbed vs holding/selling raw---just condition and date.

 

I know people will say this is my so-called bias talking, but please don't take what David Hall has to say as having any value. This guy filled an entire book with his predictions and a stunningly high percentage of them were wrong. He told people what to buy and what not to buy. He was wrong so much that when you see something he was right on it is shocking.

 

The guy is a greasy used car salesman. He hypes what he has to sell. He has no clue as to market trends. According to him, practically the entire coin market is on fire, which anyone with an IQ of 90 would know isn't true.

 

 

[MikeKing]

He told people what to buy and what not to buy

 

If he says buy it, sell it.

If he says sell it, buy it

 

 

[spy88]

Greg, believe me, I put no stock in what ANYBODY tells me to buy/hold or sell.

I simply thought that it was pertinent to the topic and worth mentioning. I think ALL of us as a whole, buy and sell as WE decide to buy and sell. I believe his recommendations are strictly from a financial standpoint of profit vs loss. A VERY tough thing to try and do is second-guess what those who buy for a flip profit in the general market of numismatics will be the next "hot" market.

 

There are those who buy to collect, there are those who buy to sell and there are those who dabble in both. IMO, the first group heed no one's advice, the second group quite probably pay attention to all market segments in order to have a better "feel" for the items that will return a profit and the third group is mostly made up of the first group but are upgrading and dumping a downgrade, hoping to at least realize their investment returned, without regard as to advice.

 

David

[dakra]

I posted something similar a few months ago while I was tracking prices and I keep my eye on the market daily. On some coins I have seen prices fluctuated but I have seen an overall down trend.

 

One of the coins I really want to pick up that is out of the ordinary for my collection is about a $350 book value, up from $325 a few months ago. I have not seen this coin in this condition sell for more than $275 in the past two months. I've actually contacted a few sellers/dealers and offered just that (around $275) but they declined stating they paid about $350 for it... they either continue to try to sell it around $350 or I see the same auction yield similar results ($275 reserve not met) One dealer actually told me it was a hot item and it's value would only go higher.

 

Moderns are a [!@#%^&^] shoot at times. It seems whatever someone is willing to pay at any given notice. I know that the 1999 9 Coin Proof set has been trending down (for instance)

 

Aside from the coin mentioned above, I'm in the market for a key date Washington. For several months I probably could have picked up the coin but have held off as I thought something better might come along in the price range I'm willing to pay. I keep toying with the idea that if the coin market is indeed trending down, I may be able to buy a better coin without spending extra money.... but then there is the kid inside who may just find a beauty and splurge.

 

My feeling on the "Hot Hot Hot" is much like the stock market. What Dealer/Investor Relations person is going to tell you the coin/stock market is weak? They got something to sell and it's the hottest thing since sliced bread.

 

-Dave

[jom]

I have since "disposed" of it

 

I've found a good use of it in the restroom.

 

I really can't believe anyone would listen to this "buy now, sell now" garbage. As a collector the "short-term" buys and sells are meaningless. Who cares whether the market is "hot"?

 

Well, actually I'd rather have the market "cold" so that I can buy coins cheap.

 

jom