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Shield Nickel, interesting "cents"

Started by RI AL,

15 posts in this topic

RI AL

RI AL

Posted
Posted

'Afternoon, guys.

 

The shield nickel post here got me curious as to the varieties of mine, 1866 and 1868. MS 62, 63. Well, I couldn't figure either one out using Peters/Mohon, but a close examination of the 1868 showed something interesting in the C and S of cents. Would very much appreciate your thoughts and please excuse the large scan.

 

Many thanks.

 

RI AL

 

shieldr1868big.jpg

 

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dooly

dooly

Posted
Posted

Sorry for messing about with your pictures but it was doing my head in :screwy:

 

the 1868 you have posted is a Revers hub IIb And should have the Obverse A

shieldr1868big.jpg

 

As for the broken letters your coin is classed as Variety 2 FS# 002.95 " Identified by the broken lower serif of the C in Cents and the broken lower loop of the S of CENTS" Hope i got this right SKIPPY hm

shieldr1868big-1.jpg

 

Now in cherry picker it is given the value of MS-60 $160 Estimated mintage of 870,000 a % 0f 30% BUT as i have been told by skippy these values and figures are questionable

 

hope this helps dooy :devil:

 

 

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RI AL

RI AL

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Hey, Dooly.

 

Many thanks!!! I never thought of looking at Cherry Pickers. I checked mine (ancient third edition 1993) and I don't see what you found...so...guess that's another book that I will have to update..

 

Anyway, THANKS!!! I've got my little label printer out and ready to go...another variety is identified!! Now...I gave up on the 1866 because I couldn't find anything remarkable about the date (repunchings and the like). I'll give it another shot but if I run into trouble, may I impose on your expertise again???

 

One more time...THANKS!!!

 

RI AL

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Conder101

Conder101

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At the time they were striking the early shield nickels the Mint was not using the Master hub/master die/working hub/working die system. The working dies were produced directly from the master hub. When the master hub broke down they were produce another master hub and start again. In 1868 they created a new master hub for the reverse with a major difference in the placement of the stars relative to the legend. This master hub broke down fairly quickly with pieces of the letters chipping off the hub. (The hub is a raised or positive image like the finished coin is, so if a letter chips off there is nothing there to create a depression in the die. With no depression in the die that portion of the letter is missing on the finished coin.)

 

The degeneration of the master hub can be followed through the increasing number of chipped letter dies it produced. 1868 shields with this reverse hub can be found with zero, one, two, up to either five or six chipped letters before the master hub was retired. We know there was only one master hub of this design because the chipped letters are always found in the same order, a definite progression. If there had been more than one hub the other would certainly have failed in a different order.

 

After the hub of 1868 was retired a new hub with a different placement of the stars was introduced, known as the hub 1870. At some point with the hub of 1870 they introduced the current hub/die/hub/die system because although the hubs still suffered from letter chipping the order the chips would appear would be random indicating multiple broken hubs.

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RI AL

RI AL

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Afternoon to ya' Dooly.

 

I am going to take you up on your offer to help me with the variety for this 1866 shield 5 center. I am at a loss with this one. I have found a series of little die breaks and what I believe to be clash marks but I'm not sure that they will show up in the scan. I really can't find anything "diagnostic" on this coin...but I bet you'll catch it right away!!

 

Anyhow...thanks much!

 

RI AL

 

1866reb.jpg

1866ob.jpg

 

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RI AL

RI AL

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Hey, Conder101.

 

Thanks for your notes regarding the 1868 shield nickel with the "chipped letters". That is SO interesting!!! I have printed out your reply and stuck it in my copy of Peters/Mohon. One question remains, however. How did you get so :censored:&*(@^*(& smart??

 

Most grateful here! RI AL

 

 

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dooly

dooly

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Hi RI AL i have had a look at your 66 ray and cannot find any thing unusual ( apart from it being Very nice coin, the only possible thing is if i could get a clearer picture of the Annulet and the top of the bars in the shield as it is unclear if there could be some doubling on these areas

 

:devil:

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RGT

RGT

Posted
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Hey, Conder101.

One question remains, however. How did you get so :censored:&*(@^*(& smart??

 

He doesn't own a TV. A TV can reduce your IQ by at least 50 points. ;)

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skippy

skippy

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Good info on shield nickels has been posted so far.

 

I'll add a couple comments:

 

1. I have not seen 1868 shield nickels with more than 4 broken letters. A fifth broken letter would be a numismatic discovery!

 

2. I see nothing unusual in the photo of the 1866.

 

 

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Conder101

Conder101

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The 1866 looks like it might have a couple of rim cuds down around the date area. Or tha may just be some of the ring material of the slab overlapping. (darn slabs,)

 

1. I have not seen 1868 shield nickels with more than 4 broken letters. A fifth broken letter would be a numismatic discovery!

I bow to Skippy on this point, he knows more about these nickels than I do.

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RI AL

RI AL

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Good morning, Dooly.

 

I have scanned the 1866 obverse again and hope this might answer your questions about doubling. I am WAY out of my neighborhood with this stuff so again, your thoughts and opinions are valued. I did notice doubling, I think, at the top of the crosslet but you're the pro.

 

Many thanks. I hope your day is a good one!

 

RI AL

 

1866giant.jpg

 

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RI AL

RI AL

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Hey Conder101.

 

Yea...I noticed that too so out came the trusty microscope. It's plastic from the slab. Bummer....would have been a cool "error".

 

RI AL

 

 

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dooly

dooly

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Hi there still not clear enough ! but the O below the cross "seems" fatter than normal but that could be the way the light is reflecting also the the lines of the shield seem to be overlapping a bit !!! but i cannot give you a definitive answer .. i would love to see the coin in the flesh to be sure.. that it is not a F23.. all the best dooly

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skippy

skippy

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I see some things in the photo of the 1866 that could be doubling, or they could just be the way the light reflected off the coin through the plastic. I've been fooled by that before.

 

If there is doubling, then there is the question of whether it is strike doubling or hub doubling.

 

Impossible to say for sure from the photo you posted. I'm leaning toward it being a light reflection.

 

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