Part 2: Are extremely valuable coins numismatically relevant?

[James_OldeTowne]

I am speaking here of coins that are valued so far beyond the realm of reality that there is only a handful of buyers in the whole world for them. Think: 1804 dollar, 1913 Liberty nickel, 1933 Saint-Gaudens or 1885 Trade dollar, all multi-million dollar coins. Are these coins even numismatically relevant anymore? In other words, when they are sold, are they being sold as part of the "coin market", or as part of some separate "prestigious eye-candy market"?

 

I can say that someone selling coins like those might as well be offering acreage on Jupiter. It is that irrelevant to my numismatic concerns. But, I'd be interested in your comments.

[okbustchaser]

I think that they are part of numismatic history. That is an important part of why they are million dollar coins.

[Conder101]

The coin, or eye candy markets have nothing to do with numismatic relevance. Numismatic relevance relates to the history and story of the coin and does not relate to the value at all.

[Zoins]

I think that they are part of numismatic history. That is an important part of why they are million dollar coins.

I think numismatic history is a very small part of why they are expensive.

 

I think the larger part is that they are extremely rare and can be argued to fit into a larger series. They aren't stand alone.

[DC Dawg]

I think that they are part of numismatic history. That is an important part of why they are million dollar coins.

I think numismatic history is a very small part of why they are expensive.

 

I think the larger part is that they are extremely rare and can be argued to fit into a larger series. They aren't stand alone.

I don't know... I think the history of the lone "legal" 1933 Double Eagle is a very significant reason why this coin is expensive and will remain very expensive, even after the discovery of the ten Izzy Switt coins by his daughter and grandchildren.

 

I think this also is the same for the 1804 Dollar, the King of Siam set, and possibly the 1913 Liberty Head nickels.

 

Scott

[MikeInFL]

Just because they are unattainable doen't mean they are irrelevant (to me).

[World Colonial]

I believe the examples cited are as expensive as they are because they are more of an "investment" item than anything else and yes, history is a part of that appeal. Though I no longer collect US coins, somehow I do not see most collectors considering their Liberty Head Nickel series incomplete because they do not have the 1913.

 

These are what I would describe as "legendary" coins. Perhaps better examples would be coins that are much less well known but still command what I would describe as absurd prices given that they are not nearly as well known. One example to me is the 1861 Pacquet $20 (I believe it is the Philadelphia issue) which must have a market value of $2 to $3 million by now. Many or most non-collectors could not even tell much of a difference between it and a regular specimen.

[TJ'S Coins]

The coins referenced are the celebrities of the hobby/industry. They are rare, beautiful, head turning attention getters. Except for a mint mark or a date, anyone of our coins could have been in the spotlight too. In part, this is what makes collecting coins and intriguing venture for some of us.

[BillJones]

You named off a number of rarities here, and I’ll give my opinion of them.

 

1804 dollars – the so-called “original” pieces are relevant because they were part of numismatic history via the King of Siam Proof set and the second, now broken set, that was made for the Sultan of Muscat. These coins, made for diplomatic purposes are great collectables.

 

1804 dollar – the so-called “restrikes” are “junk.” They were mint made under the table specials that were either used as trade bait of the U.S. Mint Cabinet or for profit. Worst of all is the one that made from a Swiss Taler. The coin was made illegally by mint employees to sell to Philadelphia coin dealers. That one is in the Smithsonian so we don’t have to worry about it.

 

1913 Liberty Nickel – “JUNK” Probably made illegally by a mint employee who used government equipment for personal profit. They were also probably stolen from the mint to boot.

 

1885 Trade Dollar - No interest. Just a Trade Dollar with “1885” on it to me.

 

Here are some others

 

1822 half eagle – Great coin – a rare coin that is “naturally” rare. The events just worked out that there were only three survivors to date.

 

1802 half dime – Ditto

 

1796 half cents – Ditto

 

1907 Ultra High Relief $20 Gold – An important part of President Theodore Roosevelt’s fight to get his “pet crime” made. Super coin, and perhaps the only High Relief $20 that St. Gaudens ever saw.

 

[DC Dawg]

You named off a number of rarities here, and I’ll give my opinion of them.

And I will respond!! Only to some...

 

1804 dollar – the so-called “restrikes” are “junk.” They were mint made under the table specials that were either used as trade bait of the U.S. Mint Cabinet or for profit. Worst of all is the one that made from a Swiss Taler. The coin was made illegally by mint employees to sell to Philadelphia coin dealers. That one is in the Smithsonian so we don’t have to worry about it.

Are you looking at investments or for the history. What stories these coins have. The tell the story of a growing nation, how it overcame the corruptions within the government to be come a thriving nation--Ok... we're a bit off the thriving at the moment, but we'll get back there!

 

1913 Liberty Nickel – “JUNK” Probably made illegally by a mint employee who used government equipment for personal profit. They were also probably stolen from the mint to boot.

Another great story. I just bought the book "Million Dollar Nickels." When I am finished with the Alison Frankel book on the 1933 Double Eagles I will read this one!

 

1907 Ultra High Relief $20 Gold – An important part of President Theodore Roosevelt’s fight to get his “pet crime” made. Super coin, and perhaps the only High Relief $20 that St. Gaudens ever saw.

You mentioned this one but not the only legal 1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle or the current 10 in the confiscated Langboard Hoard. If given a choice between the 1907 or the only legal 1933 double eagle, I would pick the 1933--it's a better story!!

 

Scott

[michael]

Are extremely valuable coins numismatically relevant?

 

some are and many others are not.............................................

 

for example these are numismatically relevant and have extreme value

 

brasher doubloon

1792 pattern coinage of the federal mint

1870-s three dollar gold

1863 proof only quarter eagle

jefferson head cents

no stars 1796 quarter eagle

and many more too numerous to name

 

 

[BillJones]

Originally Posted By: BillJones

1913 Liberty Nickel – “JUNK” Probably made illegally by a mint employee who used government equipment for personal profit. They were also probably stolen from the mint to boot.

 

Another great story. I just bought the book "Million Dollar Nickels." When I am finished with the Alison Frankel book on the 1933 Double Eagles I will read this one!

 

I'm not a fan of rewarding illegal activity. The story might be intriguing, but the coin is still a gussied up hunk of junk.

 

But I don’t have to worry about this one. With a price tag of a few million dollars, I can’t afford this illegitimate numismatic sister.