Is there a (value level) above which a "coin" becomes numismatically irrelevant?

James_OldeTowne · March 19, 2008

This kind of piggy-backs on a scenario posed early by Mark Feld.

What I mean is, suppose some issue is fairly attainable in grades up through MS-63 or so, where it's worth $10,000. But suppose also that there is a single NGC MS-68 * that is valued at $275,000, because it's condition is so far above other examples.

Is it at this point that the coin becomes numismatically irrelevant? In other words, does the vast majority of collectors get to a point where they generally couldn't care less about that particular coin?

Just curious about your thoughts, and I plan to follow up with a "Part 2" shortly...

okbustchaser · March 19, 2008

It does to me. I have just never understood the mindset of those who value condition rarity of this sort to the exclusion of considering actual rarity.

At this level it quits being about numismatics and much more about "Mine is bigger than his so obviously women all want to have my babies!"

CHABSENTIA · March 19, 2008

I would think that it would depend on the type of Collector as well as the Money situation.There are some collectors who collect a cthe best attainable oin solely because of its rarity and thus would have several different coins such as the single coin for $275,000.

Then there are others who would want an entire sequence of a certain type set of a certain grade that could buy 27 of the $10,000.00 coins toward completing the set and assuming the $275,000.00 coin was a part of his set would opt for the twenty coins rather than the one in MS 68 grade.

If a person had unlimited resources than he would be collecting the best attainable grade of each coin in the set and the $275,000.00 coin in the set would not be a problem.Whether it is irrevalent is then depends on your desires which is further limited or not limited by your resources

Conder101 · March 19, 2008

No I don't think it becomes irrelevant, but I don't think it is any more relevant than the lower graded examples. One exception to that can be the small extra relevance gained by a pedigree.

Zoins · March 19, 2008

suppose some issue is fairly attainable in grades up through MS-63 or so, where it's worth $10,000. But suppose also that there is a single NGC MS-68 * that is valued at $275,000, because it's condition is so far above other examples.

Is it at this point that the coin becomes numismatically irrelevant? In other words, does the vast majority of collectors get to a point where they generally couldn't care less about that particular coin?

It doesn't necessarily follow that people wouldn't care about a coin numismatically because it is financially out of reach for them.

MarkFeld · March 19, 2008

There are a great many coins which, due to their prices/values, I know I'll never be able to acquire. However, that doesn't mean I can't/don't appreciate them for their rarity and/or quality and/or history. So no, the value level doesn't make coins "numismatically irrelevant" to me.

Dcoin · March 19, 2008

I'm not sure if irrelevant is the right word.

When a super coin, like you mention in the OP, sells, it creates its own market. This new market can be quiet independent of the date and series it is a part of. At that point it becomes a numismatic curiosity, but continues to be relevant in the overall hobby.

MikeInFL · March 19, 2008

Is it at this point that the coin becomes numismatically irrelevant? In other words, does the vast majority of collectors get to a point where they generally couldn't care less about that particular coin?

No. Even if I can't afford it, the coins is still numimatically relevant.

TJ'S Coins · March 19, 2008

Each collector has a comfort level of what they can afford to spend on a coin. For instance I've always loved the $20 Double Eagle St.Gauden's coin. I have a couple of common date examples. I'd love to have the wire rimmed high relief MCMVII example or even the illegal 1933 Double Eagle example. I will never own either one but their rarity, price (and legality of the 1933), does not render them irrelevant. I hob knob in the neighborhood I can afford and don't mind the occasional drive to see how the other half lives.

BillJones · March 19, 2008

To me the high grade – high price thing is way overrated and way overblown. It’s driven by registry fever plain and simple.

I’d never declare a coin irrelevant from a numismatic perspective because of its price. I’d declare irrelevant because it’s junk, like the current crop of presidential dollars. But I’d never pay outrageous money for something just because it’s the finest one graded. I’ve own and still own a few condition census die variety coins, but I only paid a moderate premium for them at the time. It was not like the case where PR-69 sells for $25, and the price is $500 because of a PR-70 grade. That is not on my radar screen. A coin like that is not worth 20 times more because one grading point.

To answer the question, I’d never reject a coin solely because of the price. But if the price is far beyond what I can pay or far beyond what its historical value is IMO, I am more than willing to pass and live without it.

World Colonial · March 19, 2008

Of all the things in collecting, this is the one I consider the most absurd. I cannot at all understand why anyone would be willing to pay these exhorbitant prices and multiples to a grade one of a few points lower.

This is especially true of modern US coins and generics like Morgan Dollars. There are many of these conditional rarities that are more expensive or much more expensive than coins that are much scarcer in ANY grade.

Even with really expensive coins, you see it. The best example to me is the 1822 half eagle. I believe there is one example privately owned that is a VF-30 for which the estimated value is $1.5 million. In the early part of the 20th century, it was five times as expensive as the 1804 Dollar or at least that is the case based upon what I have read. Today, there are many coins that would sell for more. Mainly this is probably just because one is (for example) a PR-67 cameo.

physics-fan3.14 · March 19, 2008

To answer the question, I’d never reject a coin solely because of the price. But if the price is far beyond what I can pay or far beyond what its historical value is IMO, I am more than willing to pass and live without it.

:thumbsup:

If a coin is way out of my price range, I would still consider my collection to be complete without its inclusion. I wouldn't consider it irrelevant, I would just consider it to be unnecessary for the set. As TJ mentioned, if I were working on a St Gaudens set, I would certainly consider the set complete without those uber-rarities, while still appreciating that they exist and are important historically and numismatically.