For the Mercury Dime Specialists

[Newmismatist]

Here’s an area that Mercury Dime Specialists on our forum can help out their non-specialist fellow members.

 

How do you define “Full Bands”?

Which Dates are difficult to acquire with Full Bands?

How much more are the Full Band dates worth than their non-full band counterparts?

 

 

[lclugza]

1945 (Philadelphia), although a common date overall, is one of the hardest to find with full bands. I think three distinct bands must show on top and bottom, and two in the middle.

[LucyBop]

Here is another series where the FSB trades in very high mulitples above their non-FSB counterparts. The 45p previously mentioned can be a 20 - 30k coin, and even higher..... this one will brake the bank in GEM.

 

 

Tough dates...... all the early D mint coins... and all the 1920 issues are tough in FSB Gem..... This is a very fun series to collect and a nice short set from the 40s can be put together in ms66 FSB relatively cheap (excluding the 45p)......

[IrishMike]

1945 (Philadelphia), although a common date overall, is one of the hardest to find with full bands. I think three distinct bands must show on top and bottom, and two in the middle.

 

Actually the grading services only look at the middle band to determine FSB or FB. Very few that I have seen would I disagree with, but once in awhile you will see one that is questionable. I think of all the designations this might be the easiest one to grade.

[Newmismatist]

The 45p previously mentioned can be a 20 - 30k coin, and even higher..... this one will brake the bank in GEM.

 

Lucy - Does the 45P really exist in FBs? (When I was activley collecting Mercs the only FB 45Ps that I ever saw had been "enhanced" by engraving the split with what everyone believed was an "Exacto" knife. I think different, I think they were skillfully done by a jeweler or a tool & die person with an engraving tool.)

 

 

[LucyBop]

I never seen a 45p FSB .... I have only seen them listed for sale on various websites in PCGs holders..... So they exsist, the question remains to what kind of quality do they exsist? I suspect the bands on a designated 45p are not as solid as say a 44d.....

[jom]

I've seen more 45-P's in "real" FB than I have 18-D. Not even close. The 45-P get more attention however since more people seek them. Why? More people are putting together the "later date" set.

 

What do I use as a criteria? Well, none actually because I don't believe in paying huge premiums for designation coins. Now that doesn't mean I won't buy a FB (or more likely a FH SLQ) but it will due to something other than a Full Band. The coin might have nice toning or great luster or some other attribute. The fact is many of these FB (or FH or whatever) designations don't say anything about the overall strike of the coin. I do just fine buying Buffalo nickels without some grading service telling me it's isn't Full Horn or whatever.

 

It just comes down to eye appeal. The question that should be asked is: Does that lack of bands on any given coin reduce the eye appeal enough for you NOT to buy it? For many dates though the price difference isn't all the much in terms of absolute dollars so it might be OK to wait for a FB. But I'd much rather but a near-FB 45-P for a couple hunderd bucks that pay $4000 for a FB.

 

jom

[TomB]

I buy overall eye appeal and try to ignore the micro-designations that only apply to 1% of a coin's surface. However, I see nothing wrong with others buying coins based upon the designations given and would not stop someone from pursuing such a set or coin.

 

Third party graders seem to only take the middle set of bands into consideration when giving out the FB designation. This is generally an easy designation to see, although there have been many coins mis-designated by the services in the past. I can only chalk this up to carelessness.

 

How much more are FB coins worth? Well, to me they are worth very little more but to the general market some are worth exceptional amounts.

[MarkFeld]

Here is part of a post I wrote on the "other" forum some time ago. The figures/prices wont be precise as they were when I wrote it, but, should still get the point(s) across :

 

If you are already knowledgeable about Full Split Bands (FSB), this post wont enlighten you, but I hope you will enjoy it anyway. If you do not know about FSB, and have any questions after reading this, please feel free to ask.

 

For purposes of this discussion, Full Split Bands will be defined as : A complete, unbroken line between the two horizontal bands on the reverse of a Mercury dime. The reverse of the "Mercury" dime features, among other things, the Roman fasces - an executioner's axe, bound within a group of rods (which are held by two horizontal bands in the middle). It is those two horizontal bands which are the subject of the FSB designation.

 

 

In reference to the fasces, Walter Breen writes: "commonly interpreted as 'the power of life or death,' in practice it means the power to kill or make one's victim wish (s)he were dead; in an ancient Roman law it connoted the power to kill mercifully by the blade or mercissly by the rods. Weinman's symbolic message in this design (surrounded by greenery, like the iron fist in the velvet glove) was clearly an updated 'Don't tread on me' : something like 'The USA can instantly punish with any penalty up to and including death, therefore beware enemies of Liberty!"

 

Now, getting back to more peaceful matters - while whether the horizontal bands are fully split or not might not seem to be of much importance, don't try telling that to a Mercury dime collector! FSB Mercury dimes are much preferred and in many cases, the non - FSB pieces are shunned. The price differentials between FSB and non - FSB examples can be astronomical. For example in the extreme case of the 1918-D, CCDN lists an MS65 non-FSB at $370 and an MS65 FSB at $16,000, more than 43 times the non - FSB price! This is despite a PCGS population difference of 15 FSB's vs. 49 non - FSB's, or a rarity difference of approximately only 3 times. This represents is a serious / huge difference in demand.

 

Warning - because of the added value of FSB examples, the dishonest element in the hobby have been known to use tools to work on / cut the bands and create artificial / illegitimate FSB examples.

 

Some issues within the series are typically much better struck (at least in this area of the design) than others and are readily available with FSB. For example, PCGS has certified 7469 FSB's for the 1943-D, from a total original mintage of 71,949,000. For the 1919-S, however, only 62 FSB's from an original mintage of 8.850,000, have been graded.

 

 

 

[Newmismatist]

Mark

 

The information that you have provided is the type of information that I believe is helpful to those collectors who are trying to put together nice sets of these coins! 1st a little history so we know the symbolism of what's on our coinage, and 2nd the practical information so we can assess what's rare, what to look for and what information we should base our purchases on. Thanks for the excellant post.

[sanmary]

Here is a 45 being offered on eBay. Obviously not full bands but rather close. Offered as full bands and no wonder it's not in a slab.

[Fairlaneman]

Here is a just miss 18D that shows exactly what you can find for Way less money than a FB coin.

 

Ken

[Fairlaneman]

and this one is a 45P reverse.

 

Ken

[jom]

Both of Fairlaneman's and Underdog's coins are great! Although the first 45-P raw coin is probably being sold at too high a price it would be a great coin for $300 or so.

 

jom