pricing metals in coinage

[JKK]

I'm working on a spreadsheet to catalogue my coins. Each coin has a numismatic value and there is an absolute metal value (both of which depend on all the usual factors). Once I know the exact units that major markets are using, I can easily convert to some standard measure for my own usage.

 

What I am seeing is that gold and silver are typically reported in troy ounces (not U.S. ounces as in sixteen to the U.S. pound). Correct?

 

But copper, zinc and nickel are reported in U.S. pounds (not troy pounds). Correct?

 

Are there any other fillips to metal pricing reporting I would be wise to understand?

[MunkyMan95]

I think that www.coinflation.com might be of use to you.

[EZ_E]

I think that www.coinflation.com might be of use to you.

 

Thanks, Chad! You youngsters are among the best contributors on these boards. (thumbs u

[JKK]

I think that www.coinflation.com might be of use to you.

 

That's where I'm getting my basic starting information and is what I'm cross-checking my results against. However, when I go to calculate the metal value in a coin, the figure I get differs from what coinflation gets. Therefore, I decided to come here and first verify the exact units in general usage, so as to follow the trail of information from its most basic level and find what I am doing wrong. Plus, I am not going to grow dependent upon a site to do my shorthand for me. I should understand the mechanics for myself.

 

The price of metals varies with supply and demand, but it can be identified at an instant in time. The composition of each U.S. coin issue, on average, is a fixed reality and will not vary. Once that information is known for each coin, it is simply a matter of mathematics to determine that coin's metal value. Put another way, once that is embedded in the entry for a given coin in a spreadsheet, one may learn its metal value by simply updating the prices of five metals in one master sheet. That's convenient.

 

Thus my original questions:

 

What I am seeing is that gold and silver are typically reported in troy ounces (not U.S. ounces as in sixteen to the U.S. pound). Correct?

 

But copper, zinc and nickel are reported in U.S. pounds (not troy pounds). Correct?

 

Are there any other fillips to metal pricing reporting I would be wise to understand?

 

Much appreciate any observations anyone might have on any of the above.

[MunkyMan95]

What I am seeing is that gold and silver are typically reported in troy ounces (not U.S. ounces as in sixteen to the U.S. pound). Correct?

 

Correct.

 

But copper, zinc and nickel are reported in U.S. pounds (not troy pounds). Correct?

 

I'm not positive if they're avoirdupois pounds or troy pounds, but I am 95% sure they're avoirdupois.

 

Are there any other fillips to metal pricing reporting I would be wise to understand?

 

If you are alrady using coinflation, I can't think of anything else you would really need to know for a basic spreadsheet.

[TomB]

Coinflation is a good site for this material, but if you click any of their ebay links you will have a outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.ebay.com affiliate tracking and referal cookie placed onto your computer that will be active for two weeks.

[JKK]

I'm not positive if they're avoirdupois pounds or troy pounds, but I am 95% sure they're avoirdupois.

I was almost sure of that as well, and I think you know a lot more about metals investing than I do, so if we agree that means I was probably assuming correctly. Now that I've fixed a key error in my formulae, they agree with Coinflation, which I would guess is pretty much the gold standard (ar ar) for figuring this stuff out. Thanks for the help.

[michael]

What I am seeing is that gold and silver are typically reported in troy ounces (not U.S. ounces as in sixteen to the U.S. pound). Correct?

 

yes

 

there are 12 troy ounces in a troy pound

[JKK]

Okay, here's another question now that I have my mathematics straightened out.

 

U.S. gold coins of the second half of the 1800s (roughly) went to a standard of 90% Au, 10% Cu/Ag. What I cannot seem to find is the proportion of copper to silver. Was it 5%/5%, or something else? In order to know the coin's melt as nearly as possible, one would need to know. Granted, the prices of copper and silver are dwarfed by that of gold, so the result changes the current price very little percentagewise--but it still matters. Any wisdom on this?

[michael]

well this weight or standard of copper to silver was never recorded as it was a non event as copper in the usa even the copper coins minted by the usa mint before 1857 were never truly considered legal tender

 

 

also gold coins from the philly mint in the early 1860's up until the 1870's actually had 90% gold and approx. 7% copper and 3% silver in them

 

 

[JKK]

Okay. Suppose you were attempting to determine the melt value of old U.S. gold coins. You know that 10% of the coin is a Cu/Ag mix. Is there a general ratio you'd use with reasonable expectation of accuracy?

[michael]

 

 

.9 x spot gold x troy ounces in decimal form (this is provided for all 90% gold coins in the redbook

 

this tells you melt value

[JKK]

In other words, the copper and silver are not valued? With a big gold piece, that seems like it would amount to at least about three bucks if it were all silver. In any case, we value the component metals individually when the coin is a Cu/Ni coin. Why would we stop valuing Ag/Cu just because they're part of a gold coin? The metal's the metal; it has a value.

[michael]

sinceit is copper mostly if not all in federal gold coin the copper has little to no nominal value

 

in a 20 dollar gold piece the copper is only worth a few cents

 

the silver is so small amount it is mostly worth a few cents more then the copper

 

so it is insignificant