IF THE CRACK WAS NOT THERE WOULD IT HAVE BEEN A PF-70

[LEAKYCOIN]

???

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048864923&category=524&rd=1

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

[airplanenut]

No. The die crack is part of the minting process, so just like a strike through, the coin would have to be perfect, not including the error, to attain a 70.

 

The only way around that is if the graders thought it detracted from appearance...

 

Jeremy

[LEAKYCOIN]

I was wondering because here is a error coin graded a perfect 70.

 

http://www.fredweinberg.com/inventory/item.asp?ID=478

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

[airplanenut]

Ah, yes, that "error."

 

What happened with those is the West Point dies, bearing the W mint mark and made for proof coins, were installed in the Philadelphia mint and used to strike business strike pieces. These pieces, thus, received the W mintmark, which was incorrect, so they are technically an "error."

 

These pieces, as I have seen, don't really sell for any premium, and they aren't all too rare.

 

So, yes, a mint error can be graded 70, but in this case, the gold is a coin where nothing went wrong in the strike, except the die... that one's like any other bullion coin, which as I see, grade 70 more than anything else.

 

Jeremy

[MAULEMALL]

Ah, yes, that "error."

 

What happened with those is the West Point dies, bearing the W mint mark and made for proof coins, were installed in the Philadelphia mint and used to strike business strike pieces. These pieces, thus, received the W mint mark, which was incorrect, so they are technically an "error."

 

These pieces, as I have seen, don't really sell for any premium, and they aren't all too rare.

 

So, yes, a mint error can be graded 70, but in this case, the gold is a coin where nothing went wrong in the strike, except the die... that one's like any other bullion coin, which as I see, grade 70 more than anything else.

 

Jeremy

geeze Jeremy ....$1100.00 for a 45.00 gold piece.Even at 70 it's $100.00 and thats pushing it I would think.

On the last circular got from Fred Weinberg he was charging$350.00 for ms 69 $5.00 golds.Supposedly about 2500 in the 1/10 oz.And only 1000 of the 1/4 oz. Mine is a ms63 and I was offered $400.00 for mine.

[airplanenut]

OK, Mal... maybe I'm wrong. I seem to recall a while back seeing lots of those available at pretty cheap prices... maybe they went up, or I'm really mistaken...

[MAULEMALL]

No prob Jeremy.I attached the section from Fred's ad.

[Beijim]

These pieces, as I have seen, don't really sell for any premium, and they aren't all too rare.

 

So, yes, a mint error can be graded 70, but in this case, the gold is a coin where nothing went wrong in the strike, except the die... that one's like any other bullion coin, which as I see, grade 70 more than anything else.

 

I don't know what sources you're using to substantiate these conclusions, but the published facts do not support them.

 

First of all, here are statistics I've personally gathered from completed listings on both eBay and Teletrade over the past ~2 years. The numbers in curly braces are the minimum and maximum prices at which the coin has sold over that period in my (incomplete) observation. The letter after the number indicates grading service, where "n" = NGC, "p" = PCGS, and "i" = ICG:

 

1999 $5 Gold American Eagle MS70

.....{62-199.99n, 660-852.50p}

1999 $5 Gold American Eagle (MINT ERROR, WITH "W") MS70

.....{560-820.01n}

1999 $5 Gold American Eagle (MINT ERROR, WITH "W") MS69

.....{223.50-414.78n, 255-504.89p}

 

1999 $10 Gold American Eagle MS70

.....{202.83-405n}

1999 $10 Gold American Eagle (MINT ERROR, WITH "W") MS70

.....{498-2000i}

1999 $10 Gold American Eagle (MINT ERROR, WITH "W") MS69

.....{355-410n, 320-407i, 449-711.02p}

 

As you can see, the facts are that the coins with the inadvertent "W" mintmark sell for substantial premiums over the normal variety.

 

Your assertion that bullion coins grade 70 more frequently than they grade any other state is also incorrect, at least insofar as NGC and PCGS are concerned. Please inspect the current population reports. You'll find that the number of MS70 examples is in general a small fraction of the total graded population. The proportion rises substantially for the more recent issues because production quality has improved and (more importantly) because companies like Coin Vault (who are one of six U.S. Mint master distributors for bullion) purchase massive quantities of these coins and submit them directly to the grading services with a minimum of handling.

 

For example, in my scan of the NGC population report for Gold American Eagles in Mint State, I find only one issue (the 2000 $5 coin) in which the MS70 population exceeds that for MS69 (and in fact, for all other grades combined). In the PCGS population not one such instance exists. In fact, it isn't even remotely close.

 

Obviously, these numbers are a moving target. Over time, it may indeed become the case that MS70 examples predominiate. Until then, however, it would be good to present conclusions drawn from objective, demonstrable data.

 

Beijim

[airplanenut]

I find only one issue (the 2000 $5 coin) in which the MS70 population exceeds that for MS69 (and in fact, for all other grades combined). In the PCGS population not one such instance exists. In fact, it isn't even remotely close.

 

You clearly misunderstood what I wrote:

that one's like any other bullion coin, which as I see, grade 70 more than anything else.

I meant (and I believe wrote as it should appear in proper structure) that bullion coins grade 70 more than any other type of coin. Based on what I have seen, this is very true, and I have seen far more bullion 70s than circulating coins in 70, whether proof or mint state.

 

As for my word on value- I already mentioned that I was wrong. I was either mistaken, or prices have jumped in recent years...

 

Jeremy

[Beijim]

I meant (and I believe wrote as it should appear in proper structure) that bullion coins grade 70 more than any other type of coin. Based on what I have seen, this is very true, and I have seen far more bullion 70s than circulating coins in 70, whether proof or mint state.

 

Yep, I misunderstood. I construed "anything else" to mean "any other grade."

 

I'd bet you're right about bullion coins having a higher absolute number of examples graded MS70 than any other type of coin. From a "percentage of examples graded" standpoint, however, I'd be interested to see how bullion compares to modern commemoratives. Some modern commem issues have pretty high percentages of MS70 results. Check out the uncirculated 2001-P Capitol 50c for example, with some 1600+ examples in NGC MS70, more than 50% of the total graded.

 

Beijim

[EZ_E]

Check out the uncirculated 2001-P Capitol 50c for example, with some 1600+ examples in NGC MS70, more than 50% of the total graded.

 

 

Wow, that hard to believe. Just doesn't seem to be right but the census does not lie, or does it?

 

Actually, for the moderns, I'm sure that the census is probably pretty accurate since they would not be a likely participant in the crack out game.

[Beijim]

Wow, that hard to believe. Just doesn't seem to be right but the census does not lie, or does it?

 

This particular coin is routinely available in NGC MS70 for approximately $40-50, which seems in line with a relatively generous population. It does make me wonder, however, about what specifically contributed to its quality of manufacture and preservation. Put another way, is this an anomaly, or can we expect this sort of quality on an ongoing basis?

 

What's most surprising perhaps is that this particular coin should be so aggressively purchased and graded. It isn't among my favorite designs from an aesthetic standpoint!

 

Beijim