Whizzing and retoning

[nwcs]

How do whizzed coins look when they retone? Are there any things to look for in particular?

[BillJones]

The first thing to look for is hairlines. These are tiny scratches that indicate that that coin's outer layer has been stripped to create the fake luster. In it's worst for whizzing is done with a wire brush. Hence the name.

 

The next thing is probably AT to hide the hairlines. Whizzed coins aften do not well naturally. The AT is used to hide the hairlines. That's why you need at least a good 10X glass whn you are looking at Mint State graded coins.

[jom]

The easiest way, for me, to see hairlines is try to use a halogen lamp to look at the coin. Halogen really makes the coin look horrible so try to limit the use of those types of lamps for just finding these kinds of problems. Otherwise, you may never buy another coin...

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

I use a halogen light for grading. I just have gotten used to the different "look" that they have. I use natural light for eyeballing toning though. I have recently developed Cataracts (from Steroid Asthma inhalers) and can not see as well without lots of light, at least until they remove them.

[nwcs]

But how about detecting it at shows?

[DWLange]

Another thing to look for is a fine, raised outline to the letters and devices. This is caused by the metal being chased upward through the abrasive cleaning. It is like having a partial wire rim on each design element.

[Hoot]

The lustre of a whizzed coin is entirely different from a mint state coin. Whizzed coins have no cartwheel effect in their lustre. They can be quite lustrous but it whill be diffuse, throughout the coin and it will not cartwheel in light.

 

Hoot

[nwcs]

When I was in the grading class this year I actually saw some whizzed coins that had nice cartwheels. Just "lightly whizzed" pieces. When angled right with my 7x triplet, I could see the swirls, but man the coin looked good. That's the kind of coin I'm wanting to learn to ID while at a dealer's table in the horrible bourse lighting.

 

But I was curious, also, of what kind of toning happens naturally on a whizzed coin over time.

[Hoot]

Interesting Neil. I've seen a few whizzed coins and none had cartwheels, but my experience is limited. One of the coins had nice toning, as it had been whizzed perhaps 30 years ago when whizzing early commems was so popular. It was a pretty coin that fooled me, only to be pointed out by a very experienced grader after I had bought it .

 

Hoot

[michael]

for me if i am looking at copins under any lightning conditions even the most impreceptable whizzing thaty still has the "cartwheel lustre" and looks good at first glance i take my 7 x then 20 x hastings triplet loops and just keep looking at the coin under many idfferent angles and usually with my experience at seeing this it appears to me

 

and IT WILL appear to you under any bourse lightning ANY LIGHTNING when you start to see a few aND USE A HIGH power loop and start to twilt the coin under many different angles looking at the coin at first under many dsifferent anglers the coin will look fine but when you hit a certian angle with a high power loop the whizzing sticks out like a sore thumb even to the most beginner as long as you got a little experience in knowing what to look for

 

of course the key is to really examine the coin for a few to 10 minutes like this patiently under any light sourse of course some are better than olthers but with a strong loop examining the coin for 5 to ten minutes and by tilting the coin looking at it at many different angles you will see this whizzing if it is there it will all of a sudden pop up on you at the right angle!

 

the problem with this is not many will take the time or patience to do this as it is time consuming and nearly impoissible if you have hunredfs of coins to look at

 

but again if you are studying and looking for the special coin and want to make sure of it this above method is almost fool proof if you understand what you are looking for

 

and for me after many decades of doing this i am no expert but i can take a coin thaty is within my speciality and just from a sight seen glance i know where to look in all the right places so it might be eaSIER FOR ME TO SEE THIS IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES OR LESS

 

of course the above is not for everybody but it works for me and has saved me on numerios occasions where knowledgaBLE DEALWERS And slabbing sercvices has missed such enhancements on coins not because they are un knowledgable and not because i know more than they do

 

the only reason why they misssed is they are not a crazy collectyor like me and am coin done with such connsumanater skill and knowledge in enhancement it took me ten minutes of lookming wirth a strong lens and tilting the coin till i finally saw the problkems but once i saw them they stood out but not before a long time examination with a strong glass not normally used by many but with the time many dealers have with coins this is just not possibl;e with all the coins they see and/oir the services grade once in a while something does slip by!

 

for me if i ran a grading swervice i would need to personally examine some coins for many minutes then put it down think about it and come baqck three times over a few days well i would be out of business as then my turnaround times would be 8 months or more

 

yes i can for the most paRT GET A FEELING for many coins on the first glance but some coins need a more thrtuogh examination aND THOUGHT SESSION

 

so if you are a collector thinking of buying A COIN OR TWO AND WALKING RTHE BOURSE =with a few hours to kill and spot maybe three to 7 coins you really want to examine you have the luxury of the aBNOVE AND I GUESS IF SO YOU ARE LUCKY AS YOU MIGHT SEE MANY THINGS OTHERS MIGHT MISS

 

as with many coins not all but well some it does take a hard look see to really see what is on the coin and where the coin has been and what has been done to it since it was minted and if you know and understand what you are looking at with a coin it will tell you everything you want to know about it if you look carefully enough

 

michael

[michael]

[sanmary]

Whizzing is a process whereas one 'buffs' to one degree or another albeit abrasively the fields of a coin to remove marks and make the coin appear lustrous. This pushes the metal toward the devices and the can be seen under magnification. Look for a build-up of metal or a rise if you will just outside of the devices. A telltale sign. As far as toning, I suppose this should have little of no effect on re-toning. The metal will react to it's enviornment regardless.

[EVillageProwler]

As far as toning, I suppose this should have little of no effect on re-toning.

 

I think it will have a dramatic effect on the way a coin tones, and thus on the toning pattern. Thus assumes that the whizzing wasn't done so carefully as to very carefully and skillfully mimic natural die flow.

 

In other words, when we see a fresh coin, we just know how it should look with or without toning because our eyes have become accustomed to the typical flow of the metal caused by the original stamping of the dies on the planchet.

 

When we see a polished, whizzed or over-dipped white coin, our eyes instinctively know that the shine is not correct, that it isn't as it should be. That's because the light is bouncing off the surfaces in the wrong way because the metal is no longer as we expect.

 

For a toned coin, the same principle applies. The patina will have developed in the wrong places ('cuz the minute grooves or flow lines are now different), and at different angles. So, the toning pattern and likely even the color will be off.

 

Veteran hobbyists and dealers just know when a coin's look is off.

 

EVP