Post a coin you believe has unoriginal surfaces...

[MikeInFL]

In another thread, people have posted coins they believe to be original. I thought it might be interesting to discuss/post coins that you believe are unoriginal.

 

Please share with the forum examples of coins that you believe are unoriginal. If you know what was done to them, please include that information.

 

1851 N-38 Large Cent (Ex: NGC MS 62). I believe this coin was cleaned and now has a layer of oil (likely Blue Ribbon) on it:

 

The goal here is to educate and inform, not to criticize or condemn (which I am admittedly guilty of from time to time), so please let's try and keep this discussion civil and informative.

 

Thank you...Mike

[WinstonWare]

Mike could you elaborate on why you think the first coin was cleaned and now has a layer of oil on it? Because it’s shiny? It feels oily? Sorry, copper is a blind spot for me. Thanks.

[texasrichard]

This coin does not have original surfaces. Not only cleaned, but also AT.

 

[MikeInFL]

Mike could you elaborate on why you think the first coin was cleaned and now has a layer of oil on it? Because it’s shiny? It feels oily? Sorry, copper is a blind spot for me. Thanks.

 

The color is too light to be original, in my opinion (it is actually a bit lighter than the photos suggest). Additionally, the layer of oil gives the coin a shiny appearance in-hand (which doesn't show well in the photos), and has a slight "rainbow" effect you can see, perhaps more clearly, in the following larger photos (look on the obverse fields just right of Liberty below her hair bun, and on the reverse around T in CENT and MER in AMERICA):

 

 

If you saw the coin in-hand it is instantly recognizable, particularly as you rotate the coin under a light -- the "rainbow" moves around and changes color and the coin looks "shiny"...Mike

 

p.s. I suspect NGC graded it 62 because of the cleaning -- I see lots of NGC 62s (and PCGS 62s to a lesser extent) that seem to be netted down for problems such as this. If you look at the coin, it appears much nicer than most 62s and closer to a 64 or 65. However, the 62 at first glance seems to be a "mystery grade", in this case the "mystery" is the cleaning causing the seemingly lower grade on the slab, IMHO.

[James_OldeTowne]

PCGS AU-50:

 

[MikeInFL]

Here's another:

 

 

Please note, I don't post this coin to demean or criticize Greg or anyone else, but rather to educate and inform.

 

Also, here's another thread with before and after pics of MS70ed coins for those interested, compliments of James:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1325378&page=0&fpart=1

[MunkyMan95]

 

I own this one, and it's definitely not original. The black ring on the inside of the coin does not show in hand, but even for an AG03, it's hairlined all to hell.

 

On the other hand, it's a coin with a mintage of only 400,000 original pieces, it's not too bad. ANACS has graded a total of 40 coins in grades 1-3.

[WinstonWare]

Mike, thanks for the lesson. I appreciate it.

 

James, what's wrong with that one? LOLOLOL, jus' kidding

[James_OldeTowne]

Mike, thanks for the lesson. I appreciate it.

 

James, what's wrong with that one? LOLOLOL, jus' kidding

 

Let's be fair! NGC XF-40:

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Finally, just to be really fair, ANACS EF-40:

 

[BillJones]

Both of these coins have been dipped, but they worked for me. These two types are very tough in strict Mint State.

 

NGC MS-61

 

 

NGC MS-64

 

[texasrichard]

Dang Bill... you should know posting them 1853's gets me all worked up... (thumbs u

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

Scrubbed and smoked to cover cleaning.

[harvey8542]

Scrubbed and smoked to cover cleaning.

 

This may be a dumb question but how do you smoke a coin? Also would it not leave a film or smell?

[lkenefic]

This Large Cent came with a Grellman attribution card as 20/15 "re-colored"

 

 

[lkenefic]

I bought this one raw from an ostensibly reputable dealer... The coin looked to have original surfaces from the image but once I got the coin in hand the surfaces look too uniformly colored... it's a low grade piece to be sure but the price was even lower. I think I spent about $40 on it.

 

 

[Just Bob]

This may be a dumb question but how do you smoke a coin?

 

 

I would think that it would be hard to keep it lit!

[okbustchaser]

Repeating a trend started by James

Cracked from PCGS AU-53

 

Cracked from ANACS MS-60

 

 

Cracked from NGC MS-62

 

 

All three were dipped and retoned...the PCGS was wiped with a jeweler's cloth, the ANACS shows signs of a light cleaning prior to the retoning. The NGC coin was over-dipped to point of killing a lot of the luster that should have been there.

[BillJones]

Dang Bill... you should know posting them 1853's gets me all worked up... (thumbs u

 

 

Many people think that the 1853 with arrows type coins are common because of the high mintages. The half dime and dime are fairly easy (half dime) to rather easy (dime) to find in Mint State. I believe this is because setting aside five or ten cents as a collectable was fairly easy. BUT when it came to not spending a quarter or a half dollar, you were giving up a quarter to day's pay. That was another matter!

 

Grading was not as strict in the old days either. Many coins that we would call AU-58 today were called "Choice BU" if they had bright surfaces. Finally the high mintages prompted the mints to push the dies further than they did in previous and subsequent years. The dies were not taken out of service as often to be cleaned or re polished. And they were pushed to get more coins out of each die. The net results were coins with indifferent luster and less than prefect strikes. For these reasons the Arrows and Rays quarter and half dollar have long been noted as scarce type coins in strict Mint State.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Smoked with a kerosene wick lamp which generates black smoke. Coin is held in smoke by tweezers until desired dark color is acheived. Technique hides superficial cleaning scrathes very well.

 

Coin after restoration, was encapsulated in NCS holder and looks like this:

[ldhair]

[realone]

So that I can figure this out, what is it about the surfaces of the above dime that make you think it isn't original?

[hoard]

It is likely the toning that is AT.

[hoard]

an unoriginal coin but I like it just the same. Dipped with some album toning starting. It currently resides in my Dansco.

 

 

[Connecticoin]

 

[ant]

 

[stev32k]

Here's what looks like an MS70 job, but still looks good in hand. It's now in my Dansco 7070.

 

[Just Bob]

That two cent piece is one fine looking coin, IMHO! (thumbs u

[jgrinz]

[rrantique]

Really like that coin Larry,nice clash.!! (thumbs u