1832 Half Cent Grade and Color opinions please

[jesbroken]

Your opinions please in regards to this half cent's grade and color. I'm just learning about EAC color and grading and this truly helps-thanks to all who respond.

Jim

 

Sorry about the photos but this is all I had to work with.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Looks pretty nice, given the difficult images.

[MunkyMan95]

I agree, the images are a little grainy, but the color looks okay. Impossible to grade from the photos though, could be anywhere from XF45 to MS65.

[jesbroken]

Does this help any?The finish appears to be clear and perfectly smooth.

[MarkFeld]

The color looks too light to be original. So if the images are accurate, I think the coin has been lightened or cleaned. And if the images aren't accurate, we're wasting our time trying to assess the coin.

[BillJones]

I agree that the coin may have been lightened at one time, but this is where the slab graders and the EAC people differ. If it has been lightened there is good chance it will be body bagged and declared to be worth a lot less money. EAC people will look it, realizing the highly reactive nature of old copper, and make allowances.

 

The picture is a little out of focus on my monitor, and I can't make out what the thing on Ms. Liberty's cheek is. If it's a nick or spot, that's a grading point. But here's my take from an imperfect picture.

 

The coin appears to have Mint State sharpness. It looks to be an MS-63 with possible lightening. If it has been worked on, it was done with some skill. I'd say that that the EAC grade would net to either MS-60 or AU-58. If it has no rub on the highest points it's MS-60. If it has the slightest rub, it's AU-58.

 

BTW I could show two half cents - one graded MS-63 brown and another graded MS-64, brown. From a preservation perspective the MS-63, brown is much nicer than the MS-64, brown. But the number on the slab calls the tune.

[jesbroken]

Bill,

I do not have the coin in hand and the seller's pics are so small I cannot enlarge them sufficiently enough to see what the mark on the face is. As you can see by enlarging it, it becomes grainy and a little too blurry to see well.

Thanks for all your opinions. Jim

[MikeInFL]

"Perfectly smooth" is not the sign of a nice original coin (generally). Unless that coin cartwheels in-hand and/or appears different in-hand, I suspect it has been dipped, stripped, and retoned. From the crappy pics (no offense) it is tough to be sure though. I've seen coins that look like this in photographs appear at my house looking completely different, and copper is notoriously difficult to image well.

 

This is a coin I would likely pass on because it is not rare, and a much more attractive specimen should be available with a bit of searching and patience...Mike

[BillJones]

"Perfectly smooth" is not the sign of a nice original coin (generally). Unless that coin cartwheels in-hand and/or appears different in-hand, I suspect it has been dipped, stripped, and retoned. From the crappy pics (no offense) it is tough to be sure though. I've seen coins that look like this in photographs appear at my house looking completely different, and copper is notoriously difficult to image well.

 

This is a coin I would likely pass on because it is not rare, and a much more attractive specimen should be available with a bit of searching and patience...Mike

 

Some 1832 half cents come with nice surfaces. This is a Cohen-2, and this set of dies was used to strike Proof half cents. Some of the early stikes still have the affects of the Proof surface intact and can be quite nice. I would not reject this coin out of hand.

[James_OldeTowne]

Some 1832 half cents come with nice surfaces. This is a Cohen-2, and this set of dies was used to strike Proof half cents. Some of the early stikes still have the affects of the Proof surface intact and can be quite nice. I would not reject this coin out of hand.

I have to agree with this. An 1832 half-cent is no rare animal, even in brown UNC. I would have guessed an EAC grade of around AU-50 to 55.

[BillJones]

You know, if this were a silver coin, we won't be hearing any complains about "enhancement" or "brighting." A properly dipped silver coin would make into a slab with no problem. With copper though, if it's a whisper of having anything done to it, and folks are heading for the hills. Yet copper is more chemically reactive than silver and more prone to toning and corrosion. Go figure.

 

This is why the EAC people don’t have cows about copper coins that have been conserved a bit. They just net grade them conservatively and enjoy the coin.

 

[MikeKing]

Bill has a point, and while I cannot see the coin myself, in hand, the surfaces look like they could be proof-like. Are they?

[MarkFeld]

You know, if this were a silver coin, we won't be hearing any complains about "enhancement" or "brighting." A properly dipped silver coin would make into a slab with no problem. With copper though, if it's a whisper of having anything done to it, and folks are heading for the hills. Yet copper is more chemically reactive than silver and more prone to toning and corrosion. Go figure.

 

This is why the EAC people don’t have cows about copper coins that have been conserved a bit. They just net grade them conservatively and enjoy the coin.

I'm not a fan of dipping, but here is one reason why I think many people have more of a problem with re-coloring of copper coins than they do with dipping of silver coins..... Dipping of silver coins can at least return them to an appearance/color that they once had, whereas re-coloring of copper coins frequently turns them to an appearance/color that they never (naturally) had.

[jesbroken]

MikeKing,

From the seller's pics, the coin does look to have proof like surfaces obverse and reverse.

Jim

[MarkFeld]

MikeKing,

From the seller's pics, the coin does look to have proof like surfaces obverse and reverse.

Jim

Unless or until it is confirmed by an in-hand inspection that the seller's images are true to life (and I bet they aren't) then it is pretty much irrelevant how they look. Based on the odds, unfortunately, a cleaned example is a much greater possibility than a naturally PL one.

[MikeInFL]

You know, if this were a silver coin, we won't be hearing any complains about "enhancement" or "brighting." A properly dipped silver coin would make into a slab with no problem. With copper though, if it's a whisper of having anything done to it, and folks are heading for the hills. Yet copper is more chemically reactive than silver and more prone to toning and corrosion. Go figure.

 

This is why the EAC people don’t have cows about copper coins that have been conserved a bit. They just net grade them conservatively and enjoy the coin.

 

Who was complaining or having a cow?

 

Certainly not me.

 

I own plenty of cleaned and recolored copper.

 

It is what it is, and Jes asked for an assessment of the color...Mike

[MikeInFL]

"Perfectly smooth" is not the sign of a nice original coin (generally). Unless that coin cartwheels in-hand and/or appears different in-hand, I suspect it has been dipped, stripped, and retoned. From the crappy pics (no offense) it is tough to be sure though. I've seen coins that look like this in photographs appear at my house looking completely different, and copper is notoriously difficult to image well.

 

This is a coin I would likely pass on because it is not rare, and a much more attractive specimen should be available with a bit of searching and patience...Mike

 

Some 1832 half cents come with nice surfaces. This is a Cohen-2, and this set of dies was used to strike Proof half cents. Some of the early stikes still have the affects of the Proof surface intact and can be quite nice. I would not reject this coin out of hand.

 

Good point, Bill. (thumbs u Prooflike coins will look different, and I hadn't considered that.

 

But would you place a bid based on these pics and understanding that it would cost you return postage if it didn't pass the muster? Or would you pass?

 

Just wondering...Mike

[MikeInFL]

p.s. EAC grade: AU 50; TPG grade: AU 58 or BB. Tough to tell from the photos if there is actual wear or not or really just what's going on with it, so not really confident in the grade as a result.

[BillJones]

But would you place a bid based on these pics and understanding that it would cost you return postage if it didn't pass the muster? Or would you pass?

 

It all depends upon what the coin is. Back when I was collecting half cents by die variety, which was in the 1980s and early '90s, the answer would have been, "No." Back then half cents were a lot easlier to get. You could go to a show and find them. Today the market has dried up. All that's left is mostly stray cats and dogs. The "pure breds" are in holders, prices are high, and sometimes what is on the holder is not what is inside the holder.

 

Still I would not go nuts over an 1832 half cent. For a piece of early gold, yes. It would be worth the postage if I had a chance to fill a hole at even a half way reasonable price.

[BillJones]

You know, if this were a silver coin, we won't be hearing any complains about "enhancement" or "brighting." A properly dipped silver coin would make into a slab with no problem. With copper though, if it's a whisper of having anything done to it, and folks are heading for the hills. Yet copper is more chemically reactive than silver and more prone to toning and corrosion. Go figure.

 

This is why the EAC people don’t have cows about copper coins that have been conserved a bit. They just net grade them conservatively and enjoy the coin.

 

Who was complaining or having a cow?

 

Certainly not me.

 

I own plenty of cleaned and recolored copper.

 

It is what it is, and Jes asked for an assessment of the color...Mike

 

Don't take personally. I'm only pointing out that there is a double standard when it comes to copper and silver. And from what I've seen there is often not a lot of difference between graded and body bag. It might have to do with who submitted the coin.

 

Most every 150+ year old coin has had something done to it. Original is rare and attractive original pieces are rarer still. That must be considered when considering the purchase of any coin. The question is can you live with what has been done?

[MikeInFL]

Well said, Bill. Thanks for the response. You hit the nail on the head of the issue when you asked this question, IMO:

 

The question is can you live with what has been done?

 

Because that's what really matters, in the end...Mike