Just because you like your dealer...

[WinstonWare]

e.g., you could turn an AU58 into an MS62

 

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Frank Provasek]

Bill Yates says all red large cents surviving were almost certainly given a fresh red surface with cyanide one or more times during the 1860-1940 period, and most circulated large cents have been brushed enough times over the years with camel hair to be technically considered polished.

[TomB]

e.g., you could turn an AU58 into an MS62

I had been patiently waiting for you to write something along these lines, Mike, since you wrote that dipping is not doctoring if it is not done to hide something. I believe many coins were previously dipped to sell them as MS pieces when they were in fact AU. Therefore, they were dipped to hide the fact that they saw circulation.

[MarkFeld]

e.g., you could turn an AU58 into an MS62

I had been patiently waiting for you to write something along these lines, Mike, since you wrote that dipping is not doctoring if it is not done to hide something. I believe many coins were previously dipped to sell them as MS pieces when they were in fact AU. Therefore, they were dipped to hide the fact that they saw circulation.

But Tom, in many, if not most cases, an undipped coin is more likely to hide wear/circulation than a dipped coin is. Hence, dipping doesn't equate with hiding/doctoring, as per Mike's definition.

[MikeKing]

e.g., you could turn an AU58 into an MS62

I had been patiently waiting for you to write something along these lines, Mike, since you wrote that dipping is not doctoring if it is not done to hide something. I believe many coins were previously dipped to sell them as MS pieces when they were in fact AU. Therefore, they were dipped to hide the fact that they saw circulation.

But Tom, in many, if not most cases, an undipped coin is more likely to hide wear/circulation than a dipped coin is. Hence, dipping doesn't equate with hiding/doctoring, as per Mike's definition.

 

But when dipping IS done to hide the fact that a coin saw circulaton, which is not uncommonly done, I consider that doctoring, and in fact, that's what I meant when I told Tom; 'unless it's used to hide something...'.

[rexcat]

Mike that's were I was going if 50%are tampered with than 50% of say pre 1940 coins should come back BB .If Mr Hall's company doesn't BB 50% then of his company don't know what their doing or he doesn't know what he talking about somebody got to be wrong .

It's a math thing

so why do we do it simple like everything else were do it because it makes feel good.

It's like resubmitting coins always makes me understand the gambler in every one.I just paid $25.00 +shipping and insurance for advise that i don't believe and expert advise again

because i don't think the expert knows what he/she doing.So now if the coin comes back with the same grade then I change grading company's and try again if it comes back with a lower grade now I have to send it back to the first guy again . people are crazy and have to much money and spare time on their hands

Actually, even if 50% of the uncertified coins have been messed with that doesn't mean 50% should get body-bagged. The grading services see skewed submissions, in the sense that many of them have been screened by submitters so as not to submit coins which they know will be rejected.

 

And then there are the questions concerning how and to what extent a given coin has been messed with and whether that means it should automatically get body-bagged. That is often a tougher call than deciding what numerical grade a coin should be given.

 

Another factor that must be considered when looking at percentage of total submissions are bagged is what is the number of coins being sent in that would fall into the type of coin that doctoring will enhance value, like anything minted in 1964 or earlier (just to draw the line some where, eh ), compared to the number of modern mint products being pumped out every year that PCGS, (along will NGC too) can't get into plastic fast enough. So bagging half of the raw "collector" coins wouldn't impact the overall number of slabs that greatly these days in my opinion.

[just-john]

Texcat Well the time line would be around when Mr Hall made his statement ?

Mike

submitting a 58 with hopes of a 62 happens.Like the California gold rush every prospector hoped to strike it rich some did most didn't.The ones that made the most on the gold rush were the one supplying the prospectors.They were the auction houses and grading company's of today were the prospectors.