Counterfeit gold coins in counterfeit slabs

[stinkycheese1]

With the recent postings of counterfeit slabs and coins in them, why hasn't there been any counterfeit gold coins in counterfeit slabs? Most of them are all early bust dollars or trade dollars. I'm guessing its because the counterfeiters are use non precious metals for the trade dollars where they would have to use real gold for the gold coins. Do you think its just a matter of time before counterfeit gold coins start appearing in counterfeit chinese slabs?

 

[MunkyMan95]

It's a possibility. But, like you said, most of the coins being counterfeited now are made of cheap pot metal, and cost mrere cents to make. To even make a coin gold colored (ie. plated, etc.) would cost more money. And I'm not sure the valie is there to have gold coins be more profitable versus the Bust and Trade dollars.

[stinkycheese1]

It's a possibility. But, like you said, most of the coins being counterfeited now are made of cheap pot metal, and cost mrere cents to make. To even make a coin gold colored (ie. plated, etc.) would cost more money. And I'm not sure the valie is there to have gold coins be more profitable versus the Bust and Trade dollars.

 

Very true.

 

[braddick]

It's a possibility. But, like you said, most of the coins being counterfeited now are made of cheap pot metal, and cost mrere cents to make. To even make a coin gold colored (ie. plated, etc.) would cost more money. And I'm not sure the valie is there to have gold coins be more profitable versus the Bust and Trade dollars.

 

Sorry, but as this may have been true a few months ago, the coins being churned out now are made on correct weight silver planchets, such as this one:

 

 

It is only a matter of time that gold (perhaps on 10K planchets?) are 'minted' and "slabbed".

[MunkyMan95]

It's a possibility. But, like you said, most of the coins being counterfeited now are made of cheap pot metal, and cost mrere cents to make. To even make a coin gold colored (ie. plated, etc.) would cost more money. And I'm not sure the valie is there to have gold coins be more profitable versus the Bust and Trade dollars.

 

Sorry, but as this may have been true a few months ago, the coins being churned out now are made on correct weight silver planchets, such as this one:

 

 

It is only a matter of time that gold (perhaps on 10K planchets?) are 'minted' and "slabbed".

Son of a gun!

[stinkycheese1]

It is only a matter of time that gold (perhaps on 10K planchets?) are 'minted' and "slabbed".

 

If this happens, won't gold coins be harder to authenticate?

 

And if this happens, I'm buying myself one!

[jman425]

But there are counterfeits made from real gold. I had an Indian that was from Syria. Actually fooled some dealers too. It took an counterfeit expert to spot it.

[construct]

It would be extremely profitable to use real gold to counterfeit common date quarter eagles, $3, and $1 coins. There's no reason not to expect these to eventually show up in counterfeit slabs.

[warriorbassman-migration]

Well don't go giving any ideas....geez :-D

[michael]

if you know your coins nothing to worry about

 

i am not in the least bit worried

 

 

[PerryHall]

High quality counterfeit gold coins have been around since the 1950's and are nothing new. Many were produced in Lebanon and Hong Kong. These coins were struck with quality dies and were of correct fineness of gold and of correct weight. That's why you should avoid buying raw gold coins unless you are an expert authenticator or you have a trusted dealer who is an expert authenticator.

[CHABSENTIA]

If you believe some in this Forum then there us no such thing as a Dealer who has the Responsibility or the need to go the extra distance and only a 10 second glance is needed.

 

There are a few that believe that a person that receives a coin say in an Inheritance and knows nothing about Numismatics has an obligation to research the coin and to join Forums such as this for information.

 

Therefore the chances for a Trusted Authenicator in each and every location where this happens could be a problem.

[Oldtrader3]

It would be difficult to make 10 carat gold look like 22 carat gold. The counterfeit gold coins that I have heard about and seen overseas were the correct weight and fineness.

[Conder101]

Not really, just soak the strips, or the blanks in acid for a little while to dissolve the surface copper content resulting in a higher fineness just on the surface. The polishing and coining processes will smooth the surfaces and remove any traces of the slightly porous surfaces left by the acid.

[CHABSENTIA]

I was speaking about the need mainly to expect a "trusted" dealer. Recently tere was a photo of a Counterfeit coin here on one of the Forums. It was in an NGC type slab and had a valid number so if you ran the number against the data base then it would appear to be valid.

 

While there were other smaller indications that it might be counterfeit apparently the deciding test was to know that the die was incorrect.

 

In this case ,then it would depend on not only a knowledge of the particular type of the coin but the fact that it was an incorrect die and there seems to be diverse opinions on the Responsibilty of a Dealer to be able to detect it.

[CaptHenway]

All of the good quality counterfeits are of proper weight and fineness.

 

FWIW, this 1795 fake has the same edge lettering as some high grade 1795 and 1797 Draped Bust fakes I have seen.

 

TD

[BULLY]

With the price of gold surging even more than it had been, I see some people saying they are concerned, but speaking only for myself, I am examining my holders a bit more closing, with under 10x magnification, looking for the spelling errors and other things that NGC mentioned in the release, or anything out of the ordinary.

 

Heck, some perfect "70" (silver and even clad) coins are worth more than gold coins when you look at the PCGS price guide.

 

Just look at the 1999 Delaware state quarter -- it lists for $1,650 in PF70UC- that's more than a $50 Gold Buffalo is listed for in the PCGS price guide -- and counterfeiters wouldn't need any gold to make a little quarter.

 

So, are we paranoid?

 

Does one really ever "know" their coins? I mean the differences that NGC pointed out in their slabs were really kind of subtle if you weren't paying close attention. The font? A misspelling in micro-sized print that you need 10x magnification and REALLY good light to even read? The glue on the slab? Again, subtle, until you're told about them and are really on the lookout for them. It's part of why we rely on third party graded coins, so we don't have to examine them so closely.

 

 

[just-john]

coins are made in the USA ? Look around your desk -closet -home - work - car

I worked getting a book published and we had it made in Korea have had advertising booklets printed in Italy .Where do you guy think they/them China found out about slabs high prices paid for old US coins .Would like to know where the coin publishing company's and auction houses get their color catalogue printed or say Red book Blue book.Seems they always have the company address's but none ever mention or say printed or made in the USA. I predict next big counterfeiters market Antique BANK Note Plates and Stock certificates

[World Colonial]

I couple of comments on this thread.

 

CHABSENTIA, I believe there is a distinct difference between the dealer responsibility you covered in your posts on the other thread(s) and what I think you are saying here. There are legitimate differences of opinion on the level of responsibility a dealer has in buying a coin from a walk-in (or any) customer, knowlegeable or not. But if I understand you correctly, I could not possibly believe that anyone would think it OK for a dealer to SELL a counterfeit coin (gold or otherewise) and have no responsibility for that.

 

As for counterfeit gold coins, I also understand that they have been around a long time. I have heard (but do not know) that there are MORE counterfeit 1907 St Gaudens High Relief $20 than real ones. That seems unlikely to me but maybe there are a lot of them.

 

On counterfeits in general, the best defense is to know your coins. I'm not going to pretend that I would be able to identify all (or any) of them in the series that I collect. But I consider the risk generally low that it would happen. Its more likely to happen with more valuable coins that are widely collected.