When selling a premium quality coin to a dealer, how likely.........

[PerryHall]

When selling a PQ coin to a dealer, how likely is it that the dealer will offer you a premium price for your coin? Or will he grab the Gray Sheet and offer you something "back of bid"? I don't mind paying a small premium for a nice coin but I wonder if I'll get that premium back when I sell that coin.

[MarkFeld]

It depends on the particular coin (is it really PQ to the extent that most people would agree upon that, etc?) and the dealer (some will be fair and others won't). Also, in most cases the owner of the coin should quote a price rather than solicit offers. Lastly, public auction is often a good alternative for selling a PQ coin.

[MikeKing]

I think public auction is the safest way to get premium $$$ for your premium coin.

Dealers will rarely pay premium bucks for a premium coin if they can get away with it.

So, yes, you should name your price and stick with it when trying to sell a PQ coin to a dealer, because the likelihood is they will not offer that sum of money in the first place.

[IGWT]

Even though I concentrate in a particular area, a think of my collection as three subsets (not including 19th century Italian coins). Just one of those subsets is what I consider (rightly or wrongly) top-notch coins, a group that would most likely appeal to other collectors.

 

I'm not sure how I'll sell those coins if and when the time comes. At this point, what I'd like to do is solicit bids for the group from a small number (say, 3 to 5) of dealers who are knowledgable in the area and who would most likely have a clientele interested in the coins. Has anybody ever tried this kind of small, closed auction?

[DirtyGoldMan]

My strategy has been to take PQ coins back to the dealers from whom I have purchased them for an offer first. An alternative is to take a PQ coin to a dealer who sells similar PQ coins for PQ money. Both of these strategies have been successful for me.

[MikeKing]

no, but you gave me a good idea for the future. Just link them up to the registry site or send a zip file with photos and descriptions along with a note stating that you're making this offer to ... let's say ... four dealers. Great idea. Perhaps include an auction firm or two and see what they offer you....5% of the buyers fee? more?

 

 

 

[michael]

My strategy has been to take PQ coins back to the dealers from whom I have purchased them for an offer first. An alternative is to take a PQ coin to a dealer who sells similar PQ coins for PQ money. Both of these strategies have been successful for me.

 

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u

[Tradedollarnut]

My strategy is to take my PQ coins to Parker where I will be sure to receive an offer of less than CDN BID. I will then feel so good, it won't matter how much I sell them for -after all, laughter is the best medicine!

[James_OldeTowne]

The best strategy - sarcasm aside - is to sell your PQ coin directly to other collectors, and bypass the other nonsense. I've been very successful doing this.

[BillJones]

When selling a PQ coin to a dealer, how likely is it that the dealer will offer you a premium price for your coin? Or will he grab the Gray Sheet and offer you something "back of bid"? I don't mind paying a small premium for a nice coin but I wonder if I'll get that premium back when I sell that coin.

 

Your best chance of getting a premium price for a PQ coin from a dealer is to quote the dealer a PQ price. Many dealers prefer it when the seller quotes a price. That way the dealer knowns if the parties are close and it's worth his while to negociate.

 

If you ask for a price, a dealer might quote you a lower one than his max. After all if a dealer quotes his max right off the bat it's hard to go down.

 

At any rate the need to ask for a price from a dealer should be something only the public does. Dealers should be able to quote what they want for their material. If they start asking, "What do you think it's worth?" from another dealer, they are not acting in a professional way IMO.

 

As for the offers you get, they should be fair, but you have to remember that a dealer is in business to make money. For a slabbed coin there is nothing unethical about paying 10 to 25 percent below the estimated resale price. For tokens and medals the spread might be little larger because the turnover on those items is not as good as it is for coins. Also in most states dealers always have to charge sales tax on tokens and medals. There are no "$1,000 invoice rules" for them. Since dealers often have to "eat" the sales tax, that effects what a dealer can pay.

[mommam17]

My local coin shop offered 15% under blue for some nice commems I was selling a few years ago. Bought a digital camera and started selling on ebay and never sold to them again!

[Houston Investor]

Most likely they will pull out their bluesheet. Or it could be an offer of 60% behind greysheet bid. It all depends how badly the guy wants the coin and if he has a customer. Many make their money buying at their price to flip later (buying it right) - they know many potential sellers will walk away but it is the others who will sell they are looking for.

 

Your other choice is simply to sell it somewhere else. Take some coins to a show and walk them around the bourse room and see what they offer. Before falling for a bunch of sales hype that someones $2500 PQ coin is worth 50% or more over sheet you need to get an idea of what you are going to realize when it comes time to sell. I believe you will find this very enlightening.

 

A shop I do a lot of business with both buying and selling offers walkup customers bluesheet on certified coins and BV + $5 on bullion (even if its in an NGC 70 holder). This is simply one of the realities of the coin business.

 

[Houston Investor]

My local coin shop offered 15% under blue for some nice commems I was selling a few years ago. Bought a digital camera and started selling on ebay and never sold to them again!

 

I've had them try to rip me even worse. A spin doctor at a shop offered me $45 each for a couple of nice circ $2.50 Indians about 20 yr ago saying they were "jewelry pieces." At that time market retail on these coins was $200.

[mommam17]

We went to a show recently and was offered $210 for a Grant commem half graded MS 65 by NGC. My spouse said your coins aren`t worth as much as you think. I purposely but it on ebay for more than double, $450, and it sold.

[Houston Investor]

My strategy is to take my PQ coins to Parker where I will be sure to receive an offer of less than CDN BID. I will then feel so good, it won't matter how much I sell them for -after all, laughter is the best medicine!

 

Seriously, if its nice Trade Dollars like what you have I would pay considerably above sheet providing I could find them. If at auction, I would bid the max I could in hope of owning one.

 

Generic Dollars, Walkers, and Gold - well thats a different story.

[Tradedollarnut]

Generic Dollars, Walkers, and Gold - well thats a different story.

 

Agreed.

 

[michael]

The best strategy - sarcasm aside - is to sell your PQ coin directly to other collectors, and bypass the other nonsense. I've been very successful doing this.

 

(thumbs u

[James_OldeTowne]

My local coin shop offered 15% under blue for some nice commems I was selling a few years ago. Bought a digital camera and started selling on ebay and never sold to them again!

 

If a "dealer" looks at your coins, then pulls out his bluesheet, that person is NOT truly a "dealer", but he is definitely a JERK. Nobody that I would call a legitimate coin dealer gives sight unseen bids on coins he just looked at!

[MarkFeld]

My local coin shop offered 15% under blue for some nice commems I was selling a few years ago. Bought a digital camera and started selling on ebay and never sold to them again!

 

If a "dealer" looks at your coins, then pulls out his bluesheet, that person is NOT truly a "dealer", but he is definitely a JERK. Nobody that I would call a legitimate coin dealer gives sight unseen bids on coins he just looked at!

James, that and another post of yours lead me to believe that you are using your own private definition for "coin dealer". A dealer is typically a person who buys and sells as a profession. There is no requirement in the definition that such a person pay strongly, fairly or even that he be particularly knowledgeable.

[James_OldeTowne]

James, that and another post of yours lead me to believe that you are using your own private definition for "coin dealer". A dealer is typically a person who buys and sells as a profession. There is no requirement in the definition that such a person pay strongly, fairly or even that he be particularly knowledgeable.

 

Mark, absolutely, I am. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, but I do indeed have my own definition of what constitutes a legitimate coin dealer, and do distinguish between them and the pretenders.

 

And I do disagree with your definition. To me, a broker is someone who buys and sells as a profession, and a dealer possesses knowledge of his product that brokers typically do not have. Again, yes, that is my personal definition. Others may accept or dismiss it freely as they wish (and I encourage everyone to think about how they would define dealers vs. brokers).

 

Oh, and the amount a person would pay for something definitely has no bearing whatsoever on either definition. The point is that the "blue sheet" is explicitly dedicated for use in sight unseen transactions, and the instant someone sees coins in-hand, that invalidates the application of the bluesheet pricing. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

[Tradedollarnut]

The point is that the "blue sheet" is explicitly dedicated for use in sight unseen transactions, and the instant someone sees coins in-hand, that invalidates the application of the bluesheet pricing. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

 

While this definition may be true, IIRC there are certain grades [MS67 for instance] that are only listed on the blue sheet and not on the grey or quarterly.

 

What then, oh ranting one?

 

[James_OldeTowne]

The point is that the "blue sheet" is explicitly dedicated for use in sight unseen transactions, and the instant someone sees coins in-hand, that invalidates the application of the bluesheet pricing. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

 

While this definition may be true, IIRC there are certain grades [MS67 for instance] that are only listed on the blue sheet and not on the grey or quarterly.

 

What then, oh ranting one?

Common sense should always prevail. That's the best advice there is (and it is applicable to the "CAC" as well, oh ranting two ).

[Tradedollarnut]

That isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

 

Ohhhh - so I need to apply common sense to your statements of fact. Gotcha.

[James_OldeTowne]

That isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

 

Ohhhh - so I need to apply common sense to your statements of fact. Gotcha.

I'm glad you get it! Hope others will too.

 

And, I think you mean the bluesheet's "statements of fact", right?

[WinstonWare]

In my limited experience, the single most important facet of selling coins for the appropriate amount of money is finding the right buyer. Certainly not all coin dealers, nor all collectors, will want to buy your coin for PQ money. However, if you can match your coin to a dealer or collectors’ interests you stand a good chance of getting your money back if not more.

[Frank Provasek]

As a dealer, I will tell you that a dealer will seldom give you the best possible price. That has nothing to do with coin dealers specifically, but rather the overhead involved in retailing. Try offering a 1 carat soliltare diamond ring to Zales and see what you are offered. Maybe 1/2 of wholesale. Same with automobiles. I bought a new car, and dealers offered me between $1000 and $1500 for my old 7- year-old one- owner car. I sold it in a newspaper ad myself for $3500.

[michael]

In my limited experience, the single most important facet of selling coins for the appropriate amount of money is finding the right buyer, if you can match your coin to a dealer or collectors’ interests you stand a good chance of getting your money back if not more.

 

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u

[CHABSENTIA]

A cousin of mine used to work in a Jewelery store.She told me that there is an automatic Mark-up of 100% of their cost and this was many years ago. I think that most people assume this and would expect taking it to Zales and getting only 1/2 price.

 

My Parents have some friends and several years ago bought diamonds.THe Brother of the Woman was a Jewelry Salesman. When this guy would come to Texas he would be told of his arrival. My Father told me once that he went to another town where this guy was staying at a Hotel. The guy would sell him the raw diamonds for Dealers cost plus a cost for his troubles etc.My Father would then have the raw diamonds put in a setting.

 

About 8 years ago my Parents came to visit my Family in Florida and my Mother had this beautiful diamond ring.. My Father had taken other single diamond rings of hers and made them into just one. My Wife wanted to know how much it cost and he said he didn't know as it was his design but that his cost of the diamonds was $50,000.00

 

I am sure that the enjoyment was the Purchase of the Diamonds and the Rings by my Father and the enjoyment of wearing tem by my Mother. They would never thought of returning them. My Father passed last year. When my Mother passes the diamonds will be divided among my wife , my brothers wife and my daughter. In other words, all the Women of the immediate family.

 

 

I would not expect to buy a coin at 1/2 the price. The diamonds are a different matter because of the huge mark-ups. In the above case the Diamond salesman didn't care..Actually he was gwtting more money because he sold them at the same price the Jeweler would have paid him plus the extra money.

 

 

Most new automobiles depreciate 20% when you drive them off the lot. I don't know of any instance where a coin depreciated 20% the minute that the Buyer left the store unless the Dealer charged the Customer more than 20%.If the customer bought a coin and paid $120.00 and it was actually worth $100.00 then this is one thing. If a person walked in with a coin worth $60,000.00 and was offered $120.00 then this is another.

 

In the example of Zales I would also expect that instead of taking it back to Zales and getting 1/2 the price that they could also sell it privately for more money than offered by Zales unless there was a return privilege and it was returned according to it.

 

I don't think that anybody here wants to deny the Dealer his overhead and a reasonable profit. They are not in Business to give things away.

 

The problem is a $59,800 profit after paying $200.00 for a coin.

 

 

 

[wayneherndon]

If a "dealer" looks at your coins, then pulls out his bluesheet, that person is NOT truly a "dealer", but he is definitely a JERK. Nobody that I would call a legitimate coin dealer gives sight unseen bids on coins he just looked at!

 

I don't use the bluesheet because I don't buy sight unseen coins due to the poor quality. While I suspect there are many situations where the bluesheet using dealer is a JERK, it is not fair to paint with such a broad brush.

 

I have three points to make in this regard:

 

First, the sightunseen bluesheet prices are lower because they are priced for the ugliest dog coin at that grade. If someone is buying sight unseen, they will set their price for what they're willing to pay for that ugly dog coin. Sight unseen buyers also have no right to refuse once they see the coin.

 

Sight seen buyers on the other hand set their buy price for quality they are willing to accept and use their ability to sight-see the coins to accept or reject coins based on the standard they've set for their price quote.

 

Let's say the owner of that ugly dog coin decides to sell it sight-seen rather than sight-unseen to his local dealer. Just because the dealer has now seen this ugly dog in person doesn't mean it's price has magically improved to sight-seen levels. To the contrary, the seeing of the coin has confirmed that it is actually a blue-sheet quality coin (i.e., one that would be rejected sight-seen) worthy of a bluesheet price.

 

In short, seeing the coin doesn't transform the coin from bluesheet quality to greysheet quality. It just allows the buyer to determine which level of quality the coin is and pay accordingly. If it is a bluesheet quality coin, then a bluesheet price is still very appropriate even in a sight-seen situation.

 

Second, dealers don't have to buy any particular coin. The dealer can look at this ugly dog coin and say to themselves: "Man this is an ugly coin. I don't like it and think it will bring down the quality of my inventory to even take it in. Plus, I'll have my money tied up in this ugly dog and that's one nice piece I won't be able to buy instead. Yet, here is this customer asking me for a price. I guess considering all I would be okay taking it at x% back of bluesheet. If s/he passes and wants to sell it some place else, that will be fine too. I won't regret not having bought this piece."

 

Third, the bluesheet (and greysheet too for that matter) published the HIGHEST bid for each particular coin. Assume Dealer A has the highest sight-unseen bid for Coin X and Dealer A's price is picked up and published by the bluesheet. Now assume the customer offers this bluesheet quality coin to Dealer B (who has a sight-unseen bid on the coin but is lower). Dealer B is completely within is right to pay only his lower bluesheet bid for the coin. Dealer B shouldn't have to pay Dealer A's price just because it is higher and published by the bluesheet. I know some wholesale buyers who have such terrible business practices that I won't sell to them at all. A couple, for instance, take months to pay. Many other dealers won't deal with them either. As a result, in order to get the coins they need, these guys have to bid higher. When I'm wholesaling stuff, I'll sell it to the quick payer for a few bucks less rather than hassle with these guys.

 

Now let's assume that this bluesheet quality coin is offered to Dealer C who doesn't even have a bid out for this coin. Dealer C could see what Dealer A and Dealer B are bidding and make an offer back of that expecting to flip the coin sight unseen to one of them. It is completely fair for Dealer C to offer something less than bluesheet for this bluesheet quality coin knowing that bluesheet is all he's going to be able to get for it.

 

Now, put all of this in the context of how these prices are determined. Both the bluesheet and the greysheet derive their prices predominately from dealer bids on CCE and messages posted on CoinNet and FACTS (supplemented with data from auction records, dealer wholesale price lists, etc.). Not every coin has a bid all the time and even fewer dates have posted asks. Yet, the bluesheet and the greysheet fill in prices where there isn't an actual bid or ask. Sometimes they extrapolate from bids or asks on other grades or dates of similar rarity. Othertimes, they extrapolate a bluesheet price from a greysheet price or vice versa or an ask from a bid, etc. Message: Just because the bluesheet/greysheet publishes a price, that doesn't mean there is a buyer at that level.

 

There are thousands of dealer subscribers to the greysheet and bluesheet. Yet, only about 500 subscribe to CCE where most of the bids are placed. Probably less than 150 have a CCE subscription that allows them to place bids. Thus, the vast majority of the dealers reading the bluesheet and greysheet have no idea which dealer is placing the published bids or even whether they are real bids or a CDN extrapolation. So when these dealers are conisidering the purchase of a bluesheet quality coin, they don't know who the sight unseen buyer is at the published level or even if there really is a buyer at that level. Thus, they take on an added layer of risk (that there might not really be a buyer at that level, that they can't find the buyer if there is one, that the high bidder may not be a suitable trading partner, that the bid might adjust by the time they find a buyer, that the coin (ugly dog) may sit in inventory a long time before it sells, etc.). Naturally, this risk gets priced into their quote.

 

To help illustrate what the wholesale market looks like, let's do this. A couple of you post a coin and grade of your choice and I'll tell you what the current bids (if any) are for that coin (not greysheet/bluesheet prices but real dealer-to-dealer bids). Note that it doesn't have to be a coin or grade listed in the bluesheet or greysheet. Both publications select only a portion of the coins and grades to publish but there are bids and asks on others that are not printed. However, they do tend to pick and publish the ones that are most actively bid so it will be more interesting to look at at least a date or two that are commonly traded.

 

WH

[MarkFeld]

To help illustrate what the wholesale market looks like, let's do this. A couple of you post a coin and grade of your choice and I'll tell you what the current bids (if any) are for that coin

Thanks for your (entire) post Wayne. How about an MS64 small sized Capped Bust Dime as an example?