Motto Removed from Edge of Dollars!

[DC Dawg]

One provision not advertised from the omnibus budget bill passed this passed week by congress is the removal of the motto IN G-D WE TRUST from the edge to the front of both the Presidential Dollars and the updated Sacagawea Dollars (Native American $1 Coin Act). Section 623 of House Report 110-497 (H.R.2764) changes Title 31 of the US Code Section 5112(n)(2) (31 USC 5112(n)(2)) to alter the Presidential Dollars and 31 USC 5112®(2) for the updated Sac Dollars.

 

According to the bill, "The change required by the amendments made by subsections (a) and (b) shall be put into effect by the Secretary of the Treasury as soon as is practicable after the date of enactment of this Act." Considering the bill has not been signed as of 12/21, it might be too late for the James Monroe dollars. However, there may be enough time to "fix" the John Quincy Adams dollars.

 

I will reserve my unvarnished opinion for my blog. However, I am NOT happy about this. In fact, I am downright peeved that the hypocritical congressional would get their in a wad over coin errors. There are more important things to worry about... just ask those whose family member has made the ultimate sacrifice and those injured over Dubya' wet dream!

 

Scott

[Conder101]

Breaking news? I've been posting it for two days.

 

I have to agree that it is pretty crummy that they can't get the the votes to pass these things by the normal process, so they do an end run and slip them into an omnibus spending bill, which is an embarrassment in it's own right, because they know they won't be debated because they don't have time, and it won't get vetoed because its passage is desperately needed.

 

For those who may not know what this spending bill is, by law there are only 13 bills which by law the Congress MUST pass each year and those are the annual appropriations bills which fund the government for the following year. These bills MUST be passed before the start of the fiscal year on Oct 1st. Well after nearly 15 months, 3 months after it is supposed to be done, Congress still hasn't been able to get their work done. So instead of passing and debating the 13 bills, they lump them all into one giant 3500 page document that no one has the time to read (And which allows them to slip in all kinds of things at the last minute so they don't come under scrutiny.). They pass it at the last minute (in this case three months late and right before they take off for Christmas and they won't be back until around mid January.) Usually right before the latest Emergency continuing resolution expire. (The continuing resolution provides a stop gap funding so that the government doesn't shut down because they haven't passed the funding yet.) This means that the President can't afford not to sign this monstrosity, because if he does most of the government employees would have to be laid off for a month.

 

 

[cpm9ball]

One provision not advertised from the omnibus budget bill passed this passed week by congress is the removal of the motto IN G-D WE TRUST from the edge to the front of both the Presidential Dollars and the updated Sacagawea Dollars (Native American $1 Coin Act). Section 623 of House Report 110-497 (H.R.2764) changes Title 31 of the US Code Section 5112(n)(2) (31 USC 5112(n)(2)) to alter the Presidential Dollars and 31 USC 5112®(2) for the updated Sac Dollars.

 

According to the bill, "The change required by the amendments made by subsections (a) and (b) shall be put into effect by the Secretary of the Treasury as soon as is practicable after the date of enactment of this Act." Considering the bill has not been signed as of 12/21, it might be too late for the James Monroe dollars. However, there may be enough time to "fix" the John Quincy Adams dollars.

 

I will reserve my unvarnished opinion for my blog. However, I am NOT happy about this. In fact, I am downright peeved that the hypocritical congressional would get their in a wad over coin errors. There are more important things to worry about... just ask those whose family member has made the ultimate sacrifice and those injured over Dubya' wet dream!

 

Scott

 

Noted and justifiable!

 

Chris

[BillJones]

Bush is disappointing, but Congress is worse. The trouble is everybody within the states thinks their senators and representatives are fine. Many people think it's guys from the OTHER states that are the problem. The trouble is senators and representatives are judged by how well they "bring home the bacon" (or pork) to their own state or district, not by how well they do things that benefit the entire country. That’s one of the reasons why congressional spending and the deficit are out of control. Maybe if we had term limits, these guys would be less concerned about getting re-elected and holding the office for life and more concerned about dealing with the nation’s problems and earning a decent national reputation.

 

And yes, the President should have line item veto.

 

I won’t name names but there are few senators and representatives who make me sick, and they come from BOTH parties. I wish that they could be removed or voted out of office because they don’t give a rat’s tail about country. It’s all ME! ME! ME!

 

In the mean time did anyone also notice that they extended to State Quarter program to include DC and four territories? And yes, I’m darn glad they are dumping the edge lettering foolishness. My interest in these edge lettering “errors” is less than zero, if that’s possible.

 

[MTHead-migration]

One provision not advertised from the omnibus budget bill passed this passed week by congress is the removal of the motto IN G-D WE TRUST from the edge to the front of both the Presidential Dollars and the updated Sacagawea Dollars (Native American $1 Coin Act). Section 623 of House Report 110-497 (H.R.2764) changes Title 31 of the US Code Section 5112(n)(2) (31 USC 5112(n)(2)) to alter the Presidential Dollars and 31 USC 5112®(2) for the updated Sac Dollars.

 

According to the bill, "The change required by the amendments made by subsections (a) and (b) shall be put into effect by the Secretary of the Treasury as soon as is practicable after the date of enactment of this Act." Considering the bill has not been signed as of 12/21, it might be too late for the James Monroe dollars. However, there may be enough time to "fix" the John Quincy Adams dollars.

 

I will reserve my unvarnished opinion for my blog. However, I am NOT happy about this. In fact, I am downright peeved that the hypocritical congressional would get their in a wad over coin errors. There are more important things to worry about... just ask those whose family member has made the ultimate sacrifice and those injured over Dubya' wet dream!

 

Scott

 

So what exactly is your gripe? The removal of IN GOD WE TRUST or the current Congress and President? Why can't (or won't) you spell out the word GOD?

[physics-fan3.14]

So are all the edge inscriptions being moved to the front and back, or just the motto? And I agree, all this pork is just sickening.

[DC Dawg]

So what exactly is your gripe? The removal of IN GOD WE TRUST or the current Congress and President? Why can't (or won't) you spell out the word GOD?

 

I like the edge lettering. It is different and interesting. Edge lettering is a throw back to our early coinage when edge lettering was the norm. Moving these elements to the edge allows for more flexibility in design and gives the portrait a cleaner look. When looking at the portrait on the proof coins, I am impressed by the design. And it gives the artist more freedom to do better work--and US coins need all the help they can get!

 

Like Bill Jones, I am not a fan of the edge letter error chase. While I buy rolls and look, it is casual because after I pull coins for folders and albums. The balance are spent--they work great in vending machines!

 

WARNING: PERSONAL OPINION TO FOLLOW. I am answering a question. If you are offended by the exercise of free speech regarding religion in politics, stop reading now!

I do not like the reason why it was moved. Religion is a matter for the clergy and not congress. ALL religions should be respected and not a matter of legislation. Religion is personal and should not be legislated. But I see this measure as the work of the jingoistic, religious radicals in the congress who would rather proselytize than govern. I see this and

of Virgil Goode (R-VA) as being chest thumping hatred for anything that they do not believe. I see it as a threat to the First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." I know the courts do not agree with me, but I feel they are dead wrong!

 

My feeling regarding the use of this motto on coins was best expressed by President Theodore Roosevelt: "My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege ... it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements."

 

As for the spelling of G-D, you can find a scholarly answer here or answered in less religious way here.

 

Scott

 

P.S. I will not respond to comments made on the section after WARNING in this forum. Religion and its associated belief structures are a matter of personal conviction. I respect yours and hopefully you will respect mine. If you want to discuss this further, please use the PM facilities of these boards and tell me how I can contact you via direct email so we do not burden the Collector's Society disks. I have no problems with discussing these statements, but I feel a public discussion is not appropriate--especially here. Thank you and Happy Holidays.

[Just Bob]

As for the spelling of G-D, you can find a scholarly answer here or answered in less religious way here.

 

Very interesting,Scott. I was aware of the tradition (or prohibition) of the Hebrew word, but did not realize that it had also been applied by some to English as well. Thanks. My education continues.

[ant]

edge lettering! bah! they did edge lettering long b4 now! and the only coins that get a stupid site view is the new ugly junk.

[jesbroken]

I'm with you Scott.

 

[astrostu]

Just wanted to say that I agree with Scott 100%. It me off to no end, and I can't believe they actually inserted this despite it being proposed and struck down earlier this year; problem is, no one in Congress wants to appear anti-religious going into a presidential election year, and either side would call the other side anti-religious if they tried to strike this.

 

On second thought, I can believe they did this, and that makes me even more depressed.

[BillJones]

The only good reason for edge lettering was when the coins were made of precious metals. Edge lettering discouraged crooks from scraping medal off the edge and debasing the coinage.

 

Today edge lettering serves two purposes, and neither of them is compelling. The first it discourages counterfeiters by making them have to worry about the “third side” of the coin. But since we are putting these edges on a heavily debased and inflated dollar, counterfeiting that coin is hardly worth the effort.

 

The second advantage is that some of the required wording can be moved off the faces of the coin and to the edge. That gives the designers more flexibility. Still a better solution would be to scrape one or two of these required mottos. I can live without “In God we trust,” and do we really need to see “E Pluribus Unum” all the time. We were able to live without it on every coin during the 19th century.

 

[pendragon1998]

Well, here we go again with another pointless thread where everyone's going to spout their opinions about 'dubya', congress, and God. As though anyone's going to change their perspective on those issues because some folks feel the need to vent their spleens. All discussions on those subjects do is get folks 'pizzed' off at each other.

 

ScottB, I like you man, but c'mon! We don't need this sort of post around here. They'd eat it up across the street, which is an indicator that we oughtn't dredge it up here. Don't polarize us! I'm fed up enough with the current bunch in Washington (from both parties) - I don't need to add to that stress by reading about it here.

[BillJones]

I don't need to add to that stress by reading about it here.

 

Well as Harry Truman said, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." If you don't like what you might see here, don't read it!

 

As for "eating things up across the street" conditions "inhale air or liquids" (the S-word that probably turns to *spoon*) which why I don't spend much time over there any more.

[pendragon1998]

I could offer a scathing political opinion if I wanted to; however, I don't think these forums are really the place for politics.

[MikeInFL]

Hey Scott, tell us how you really feel.

[MikeInFL]

p.s. I agree.

[Zoins]

I can live without “In God we trust,” and do we really need to see “E Pluribus Unum” all the time.

What if we also removed "Liberty"

[MTHead-migration]

[BillJones]

I can live without “In God we trust,” and do we really need to see “E Pluribus Unum” all the time.

What if we also removed "Liberty"

 

Some elements of the government have been working are removing "Liberty" for some time. One need only look at the Supreme Court decision that allows local governments to condemn property not for public works, but for the benefit of private developers. Putting a word on a coin is not going to save your civil rights.

[Conder101]

So are all the edge inscriptions being moved to the front and back, or just the motto?

Just the motto, E PLURIBUS UNUM, the date and mintmark will remain on the edge. This would tend to indicate that the change was due to religious pandering. Otherwise why single out just the motto and leave the rest of the letting on the edge?

 

What if we also removed "Liberty"

They did. The word LIBERTY does not appear on the president dollars, and I think that is a more important statement than IGWT.

[awb]

Putting a word on a coin is not going to save your civil rights.

Just as removing (or adding) the word "God" to a coin doesn't affect his existence one bit. I agree with Scott and others that religion is a personal issue that the government really shouldn't be interfering with. I'm not too upset about the motto on the coin, although I do agree that it is a violation of the Constitution. It does irk me that our elected officials are wasting time on where the motto goes on the coin. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." I imagine God would have us worry about more lofty issues.

[Tom Elias]

The freedom of the "people" to elect/assign a representative who may decide to select an ARTIST to render slogans/depictions and/or Historical References, should not be allowed to be imposed upon.

Art and Historical Reference in Art ,when Historically used, may be used in ARTFULL DESCIPTIONS.

Don't like the art , submit objections to Government and Press, and use a CREDIT CARD OR ONLINE BANKING!

 

JUST MY OPINION, BUT WILL NOT COST TAXPAYERS MILLIONS TO DEMAND IT BE OR NOT BE ON A COIN!

TOM ELIAS --- A 'POOR MAN"

[astrostu]

Bush signed the $555 billion bill into law, so it looks like this will happen unless there's some new legislation soon.

[construct]

I would love to see Congress leave mottos on coins to the mint. I'd be happy if Congress let mint officials and coin designers decide which mottos (if any) appear on which coins and where. For the Presidential dollar program, the basic design was already set and IMO satisfactory. In the interest of uniformity, Congress shouldn't have changed with it.

 

I also agree with Conder that Congress is worried about the wrong motto. The omission of the word "Liberty" is far more troubling to me than missing edge lettering errors or any perceived slight to a god of hypersensitive worshippers.