Why do we need the grading services to tell us . . .

[Newmismatist]

Whether a coin has Full Bands (FB), Full Bell Lines (FL) Full Steps (FS), Full Head (FH) Full Torch (FT) - Have I forgotten any of the special designations (Acented Hair? AH?) that unless I'm missing something can be determined if we simply take the time to LOOK.

 

Now maybe I'm starting to get a bit curmudgenly, but are ALL coin collectors so blind and so stupid that we pay someone else to tell us what it is that we can plainly see (or not see) on a coin?

 

And to take this one step further, why on a very small porion of the coin. Many coins have the particular designated part visible, but other aspects of the coin exhibit lack of full definition. For Example: On SLQ's why not full toes (FT) in addition to FH, or FT & FH, or maybe full shield rivets (FSR) or full date (FD) so then we could have a coin that said 1919 MS65 FH, FT, FSR & FD - (and that's just the obverse) On the reverse we could add, Full Breast Feathers (FBF) Full Wing Edge (FWE) and Full Stars (FS) - maybe even Full "E Pluribus Unum" (FEPU). If we had all of these nifty designations, we we then know if the darn thing was fully struck, or maybe even struck from an early die state, but just FH ONLY tells us that the 2% of the obverse at the top got fully struck from a dies that hadn't yet become so used that the deepest recesses of the dies were now worn (or filled). How many FH SLQs have you seen that don't have the toes, some of the shield revits are missing and sometimes the date is 1/3 to 1/2 missing?

 

Now, I firmly believe that the prescence of full strike on a coin can add value to a coin, or conversely its absence can lower the value and desirability of a coin. But this is just ONE of several factors which overall contribute to the Eye appeal of a coin, some of which are as follows (there's probable more that I haven't thought of):

 

1. Condition,

2. Strike,

3. Luster, and

4. Toning

 

To the above can be added Die state (you get cameos & PLs from new dies, and full die characteristics when the dies are new).

 

Now rarity is not listed because rarity (availability of the particular date) is not part of grade - it enters into the valuation of the coin in addtion to the factors that give us the coin's grade which together indacte a value for the particular coin.

 

What I see is that the grading services are telling us the obvious and we, as collectors then pay for this unnecessary attribution AND we then place multiple values for this one small ( & on some coins, its small) aspect of the coin, disregrding all other characteristics of the coin.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Now that we are told which Roosies have FBs, are Roosies worth multiples if they have FBs?, same with the other series mentioned?

 

Or is it just a great marketing strategy, we get to pay for having our coins graded again?

 

If Yes - which series should we next regrade?

Full Breast Feathers (FBF) on Morgans (how about all those O mints)

 

If the grading services add enough of these attributions, then we wouldn't even need to look at the coins & we could buy and sell 'em using blue sheet bid and ask - we could have a matrix of all the various possibilities of what was (or was not fully struck up on the coin & price 'em accordingly.

 

Or am I just not getting it?

 

I posted this accross the street, any comments from those over here?

[crito]

I wish they'd just designate them as Full Strike. Having one part of the design struck up fully, while another portion remains weak, means little to me.

 

[sanmary]

Good call, Crito. A full-strike designation would cover it all. How many FB Mercs have I seen with softness in the hair above the ear??? Too many, but to some the bands being split is the only reason for buying the coin. Go figure.

[nwcs]

We don't need it, but it is a useful designation for a sight unseen, wholesale market.

[michael]

WE DO NOT NEED THE GRADING SERVICE WE WANT IT!! THE MAJORITY OF COLLECTYORS/dealers AND THE MARKET HAS RULED

 

that IN GENERAL IN MANY cases with many coins the coin cant be conveinently sold for a good price unless it is certified

 

it is all demand

 

if this was not so then the services would not get any coins

 

michael

[TomB]

You're singing to the choir, Newmismatist!

[Newmismatist]

"You're singing to the choir, Newmismatist!"

 

But is it a big choir?

[Leothelion]

Good call, Crito. A full-strike designation would cover it all. How many FB Mercs have I seen with softness in the hair above the ear??? Too many, but to some the bands being split is the only reason for buying the coin. Go figure.

 

Unfortunately, the hobby is cluttered with attributes for all of the above. And it makes sense to have a full strike designation but if they had their act together from the beginning, all MS65 and up grades must be fully strucked to qualify for those grades.

But of course, an announcement and a new color slab insert could mark a new beginning to this very important aspect to grading coins.

 

But again, this would put a kink in a dealers (shysters) selling tactics to pawn off their crummy coins to unsuspecting, especially to the new collector.

 

We enter a so-called bull market, most collectors get screwed, the bottom falls out and then they wait another 6 to 10 years to do it all over agian.

 

Leo

[cladking]

Good call, Crito. A full-strike designation would cover it all. How many FB Mercs have I seen with softness in the hair above the ear??? Too many, but to some the bands being split is the only reason for buying the coin. Go figure.

 

Unfortunately, the hobby is cluttered with attributes for all of the above. And it makes sense to have a full strike designation but if they had their act together from the beginning, all MS65 and up grades must be fully strucked to qualify for those grades.

 

 

 

Part of the problem is that one collectors full struck is another collector's 99% strike. There is even dispute about what actually constitutes the requirements for the designation in some cases. There are coins which don't appear as 100% strikes so how would these be shown to be highly superior strikes? In fact if they needed full strike to be gem, then how can they even be graded as gems?.

 

Part of the reason that the designations are chosen is that they actually tend to differentiate the coin by strike. You wouldn't want a designation that most all coins recieve nor would you want one that is impossible for most dates. It is often a relatively important design feature but this is hardly the entire or most important point.

[jom]

The down side of this is that the by designated these strike issues (or "cameo" or whatever) the non-designated coins become ignored and/or undervalued in the process. Gee, if that Roosey isn't Full Torch then it must be worthless, right?

 

Believe it or not the grading services seem to dictate how and what the collecting community "should" collect. Maybe not the services themselves but the dealer "buddy buddy" system that seems to be prevelent goes a long way in what coins are hyped and which are ignored. How else can you explain all these added designations and, IMO, the many AT coins being certified as "market acceptable"? If it isn't dealer hype, what else is it? I mean, really, if your coin isn't MS65 then it clearly isn't "worth" owning because it isn't "investment" grade.

 

Like I said over at the PCGS board, the collecting community needs to take a long hard look at how these influences are dictating to us how and WHAT we collect. Hopefully, in the long run people will come to their senses....

 

jom