A Quick Note on Baltimore

[DC Dawg]

Amongst the goals of my time in Baltimore was to see how many dealers I could find with NGC and PCGS slabs that included CAC stickers. I arrived at the Baltimore Convention Center a little after 1pm and left around 6:30pm. During that time, I found a total of TWO dealers with CAC stickered coins. One dealer had a few--no more than four--stickered coins. That dealer said that he bought the coins on Thursday and had learned about the stickers at that time. When asked for his opinion, he just shrugged.

 

The other dealer with stickered coins was Legend Numismatics. Not all of the coins in Legend's cases were stickered. There was one case with at least 75-percent of the coins stickered. The other case had none. Both cases were fairly full, but not packed end-to-end. These cases were filled about equally with coins from NGC and PCGS. No other TPG was represented.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am reporting the facts, not passing judgment. Since I did not speak with the people from Legend (Laura Sperber was there), I do not know if the other coins have been submitted for stickers and/or rejected. I do not know if there were any pending for stickers. I also did not ask their policy on submitting coins for stickers. I purchased from the dealer at the table next to Legend. When I was finished, Laura and another gentleman was shmoozing a potential customer. Since they were busy, I wasn't going to buy from them, and my time was limited, I did not hang around to ask questions.

 

I will have a more complete show report by Sunday. For now...

 

Scott

[cpm9ball]

Do you think the folks at Legend were testing the waters with samples of, both, stickered and non-stickered coins to get customer reactions?

 

Chris

[PerryHall]

When I see a dealer's case with very expensive coins and about half have the CAC sticker, I am immediately suspicious that the raw slabs must have been tried and were rejected by CAC.

[carson city]

Good to know !

[RWB]

Hmmm…I was going to put little oval stickers on all the coins I examined so I could keep track of the ones I’d seen. Got the stickers at one of those dollar store places.

[MarkFeld]

When I see a dealer's case with very expensive coins and about half have the CAC sticker, I am immediately suspicious that the raw slabs must have been tried and were rejected by CAC.

I will reply based on the thought that you aren't joking this time as you were last time. You are free to be as suspicious as you care to. However, I talked to a number of active dealers and asked about their submissions to CAC. They indicated that, rather than submit a lot of coins that were sub-par, they made an effort to submit quality coins which they felt would/should have a good chance of being approved. In each case, the dealer submitted a fairly small percentage of his inventory, not a large one. And that doesn't speak to all of the coins the dealers might have acquired just before the show, and which they wouldn't have time to submit to CAC even if they wanted to.

 

 

[BillJones]

When I see a dealer's case with very expensive coins and about half have the CAC sticker, I am immediately suspicious that the raw slabs must have been tried and were rejected by CAC.

 

I think I know the dealer about whom you are speaking, and I think you are bit off base. That dealer is one of top guys in colonial and early American coinage and medals, and his coins are almost always nice for their kind. You have to remember that he deals in some coins that virtually don't exist in Mint State or even AU. Some of his slabs didn't have stickers because he had not submitted them.

 

He and I have known each other for many years (since the 1970s). I had a long conversation with him about CAC, and he thinks it’s a good thing. He thinks (hopes?) it will knock some of the real certified riff-raff out of the market.

 

I told him that I was not happy about the fact that I might have to have my coins “double certified.” He told me not to worry because I have good eye and my stuff didn’t need the stickers.

 

At any rate I did spring for one of his CAC coins although the CAC stick had no influence on my purchase whatsoever. He told me to leave the sticker on the slab so I’ll do that for the time being.

 

[carson city]

Rumors have it that CAC was a no-show at Baltimore.

[DirtyGoldMan]

When I see a dealer's case with very expensive coins and about half have the CAC sticker, I am immediately suspicious that the raw slabs must have been tried and were rejected by CAC.

 

I think that this is a natural suspicion, and people will share this suspicion for some time. I personally feel the same way.

 

It is very similar to a dealer with a case of mid-high end coins in which half are slabbed and the other have look like they could be or should be.

 

Thanks for the early report. I look forward to reading the rest later.

[BillJones]

It is very similar to a dealer with a case of mid-high end coins in which half are slabbed and the other have look like they could be or should be.

 

This observation can have some merit for most dealers, but it does not apply to those who deal in colonial and Confederation coins, and early U.S. copper. Most of the collectors who specialize in those areas don’t care for slabs and prefer their coins to be raw.

 

The grading standards for these collectors are different also. For “no problem” coins Early American Copper standards are stricter. Copper collectors also are open to coins with minor problems, especially when the coin is question is very scarce or rare. You won’t find many EAC guys putting a Jefferson or a Strawberry leaf cent in a body bag regardless of how it looks!

 

As to the dealer about whom this thread started, I can tell you he that falls into this group of U.S. collector – dealers, who have about much independence from slabbing as you going to find.

 

[DC Dawg]

For this thread, I clicked on cc's post to read what he said (ok... I'm a masochist! )

 

Rumors have it that CAC was a no-show at Baltimore.

CAC was not present at the show. CAC was not listed in the dealer list for the show. The dealers I chose to speak with who had coins I was interested in (mostly Morgans) were about 50/50 on their knowledge of the CAC. None offered any commentary on the CAC.

 

DISCLAIMER: Again, this is fact based on my observation and in now way representative of a market study. After the many discussions, I was just curious.

 

Scott

 

[michael]

When I see a dealer's case with very expensive coins and about half have the CAC sticker, I am immediately suspicious that the raw slabs must have been tried and were rejected by CAC.

 

:insane: :insane:

 

buy the coin not the holder or sticker

 

if any are truly concerned and serious about the above quoted statement it is time for you to get into another hobby

 

OR....................

 

learn and study for a number of years....... GET EDUCATED before you buy anything

[carson city]

Thanks for the Baltimore report. One can only wonder at which coin show CAC will be in attendance ? Maybe they just want to deal with the coin collecting public at "arms-length" ?