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Large cent guys...........

Started by relicsncoins,

23 posts in this topic

relicsncoins

relicsncoins

Posted
Posted

The surfaces look odd to me on this coin for a business strike. There appears to be no wear, but the coin doesn't appear to have any cartwheel luster, yet doesn't looked polished either. The surfaces remind me more of a proof coin than business strike. Of course I know very little about big coppers, and am probably way off.

 

JJ

 

Large cent

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EZ_E

EZ_E

Posted
Posted

You're right, it does look like a proof. I like it, especially the reverse. The cleaning solution that the old timers would use would cause the coin to take on a blue tint like this one.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Based upon the images my guess is that it's a lightly cleaned business strike. The edges don't look square enough and I don't see surfaces consistent with that of a Proof.

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jesbroken

jesbroken

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Looking on Heritage's past sales of Proof 1854 Lg Cents, I fould five, of which one had the same exact coloring and sharpness, the others varied. The one thing that all of them had in common was on the reverse denticles there seemed to be a die line(for lack of a better term) through the denticles in a semiperfect circle. All of the five had this to different degrees. I'm not saying this is necessary as I wouldn't know this, but it is noticeable on the five I looked at. I cannot make this out on the ebay coin. Beautiful coin though. I've attached a photo of what I'm talking about. Hopefully, there will be someone on the board that knows. JMO

 

1854lgcentproofrev.jpg

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relicsncoins

relicsncoins

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BTW, his starting bid is $375 which is around 63 money. Based on those images, it would be a heck of a gamble as to whether that coin would even slab let alone slab at 63. Now if it were a proof, that's a different story.

 

JJ

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EZ_E

EZ_E

Posted
Posted
Agreed, this coin has had something done to it. Check out his 1856 half cent. It has the same "look".

 

But all of his coins are "fully original". It says so right in the auction. I especially like this one:

 

1882 Dime MS64 Fully Original

 

Fully original my eye! And note the nice gouges on the obverse. doh!

 

This auction alone sounds the warning bells to stay clear of this seller!

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MikeInFL

MikeInFL

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I believe this coin is a cleaned prooflike business strike -- one I would not bid on and one I would be surprised if slabbed by any of the big 3 grading companies.

 

On a proof, I would expect for LIBERTY to be more strongly struck and the edges to be more square...Mike

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EZ_E

EZ_E

Posted
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Help me see what you are seeing as a sign of cleaning in those pictures. Impaired luster?

 

The color is the main indication it has been cleaned since many of the early copper was dipped in a solution which causes this type of toning.

 

To see if it is proof or not, you should inspect the denticles which surround the coin. A proof wil have very square and distinct denticles, the business strike will be more irregular and not sharply squared.

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Arizonadesertrat

Arizonadesertrat

Posted
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Yes. There is a sheen (not due to polishing IMO, but it looks chemically induced). AU-MS half cents of this era should show some hints of mint red in some of the crevices. This is evident on the obverse, but not the reverse. The areas of the obverse where the toning is not as dark look odd (too bright), like the coin has been cleaned.

 

Cleaning can do a number of undesirable things to a coin: if harsh, there will be telltale hairlines (faint scratches seen under magnification); if light, hairlines may not be visible (which is MUCH better) but the luster will attenuate (and repeated dipping will result in a dull appearance). Where coppers are concerned, the distinction is almost moot because the post-cleaning surface will have a strange color that some try to mask by using a toning dip, storage in cheap paper products that have high sulfur contents, etc. PCGS and NGC graders will body-bag a copper that they think has been lightly cleaned, so coppers are judged more harshly than coins made from silver, nickel, or gold.

 

The coin is well struck, the planchet is quite nice, it has no carbon spots, and doesn't look like it was spot-tooled (to remove old encrustations). The cleaning means that you shouldn't bid on it, however. Half cents from the late 1840'S to 1857 (the end of the denomination) appear in AU+ grades pretty frequently on the internet and in dealer ads (but they are a bit scarce as far as coins go---mom and pop coin shops can't normally keep nice ones in stock), so wait and get a nice one that wasn't messed with.

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lkenefic

lkenefic

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Help me see what you are seeing as a sign of cleaning in those pictures. Impaired luster?

 

The color is all wrong...Mike

 

If you're talking about the half cent I totally agree!! The color I'm seeing that's being passed off as "luster" appears to be a burnt orange on my monitor. When copper is lightly cleaned or dipped it turns more of an orange color and not the mint red that one might expect from an MS coin. FWIW I agree with the other poster in that $375 is fairly strong money to take a chance on this particular piece. The seller seems to start all of his auctions this way though... speculator that got caught at the high end of the market??? ;)

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