Cleaned Early U.S. Dollars

[RI AL]

I'm procrastinating this morning...don't want to tackle the remaining retirement/disability paperwork...YUCK...been at it for about 9 months now but there is light not far down the road...

 

Anyway, Quite a few years ago...I took a brief fancy to early dollars and started the hunt for an affordable example of each type. SO glad I did it then, because I sure as heck couldn't afford it now!!

 

Somewhere I read that a very large percentage of early dollars (I want to say 70% but not sure) were cleaned at some point. I am putting pictures of my 3 examples in this post. The 1795 is cleaned, and retoning somewhat, the 1797 is marked "cleaned" by ANACS. Doesn't look it to me...but THEY are the experts.The 1803, PCGS is not marked "cleaned" (would it be in a slab at all from PCGS if it was cleaned?) but of the 3, I think it is the most obvious of having something done to the surfaces. I'm a little confused but am pleased with the coins. Is this possibly a topic of interest?

 

Thanks so much. Hope your day is going well!. RI AL

 

[MarkFeld]

From the images (and the addition of reverse images might be very helpful)....

 

The 1795 looks to be heavily cleaned; I do not see the cleaning on the 1797, so either the image is hiding it or it's on the reverse; if the 1803 has been cleaned it was apparently light enough so that PCGS was OK with grading and encapsulating the coin. Perhaps you are mistaking the somewhat uneven color and wear for cleaning?

 

Yes, cleaned coins get into PCGS and NGC slabs - it is a matter of degree and what they consider acceptable.

[RI AL]

Good morning, Mark, and thank you so much for your reply. I will be happy to post the reverses. The 1803 dollar is actually a bit brighter than the scan picked up but I guess either it was cleaned by PCGS standards or somehow, it just kept most of its luster. Too complicated for my head.

 

Again, thanks so much. I appreciate your time and sharing of your knowledge.

 

RI AL

 

 

[123cents]

I like the 1797. It looks very nice for being graded as a "cleaned" coin.

[Arizonadesertrat]

I can't tell from the image whether the 1797 dollar was cleaned, but you may want to study it carefully, looking for faint cleaning scratches (hairlines). Many, if not most, 18th-century coins and early 19th-century ones have been graded and slabbed by NGC and PCGS even though they show evidence of cleaning. I have even seen lightly polished dollars in first-tier slabs.

[MikeInFL]

Of the 3, I much prefer the look of the 1797. Like others, I would be suspicious of the evidence of cleaning to be hiding under the toning, but looks-wise it is the most attractive and appealing ot me...Mike

 

p.s. based upon my own (limited) observations, 70% is a severe underestimate in the extant coins that have been dipped/cleaned in the past, and wouldn't be surprised if this number was above 95%.

 

p.p.s. "buy the coin, not the holder"

[TomB]

I agree with Mark in that the 1795 has an obvious, altered surfaces appearance while the 1797 looks nice in the scan. The 1803 may or may not have been cleaned, which both PCGS and NGC allow for early, Federal issues, but was likely dipped. The dip process would make the coin appear far too light in color for a coin of its age and circulation. The fact that it is bright or light in color does not mean that it has retained any luster, though I cannot tell you if there is, indeed, luster on the coin from the scans.

[PerryHall]

The ANACS coin probably has a zillion hairlines which you can not see in the pics. You need to hold it at a certain angle under a good light source to see them. Looks like it is retonning nicely but the hairlines will still be visible under the right light sourcs. The PCGS coin looks dipped bright which the grading services apparently find acceptible.

[Conder101]

My two cents,

 

The 1795 is obviously cleaned, the 1797 looks like it might have a very light cleaning on the reverse, the 1803 is cleaned but not unattractive. And yes on early pieces cleaned coins can get into PCGS and NGC slabs as long as they are not badly cleaned.

[kryptonitecomics]

That 1797 looks too good to be in a net graded slab....but we don't have the coin in hand so there might be something obvious holding it back

[BillJones]

The 1795 Flowing Hair dollar has been severely cleaned and would never go into a leading TPG holder. The 1797 must have some hairline cleaning marks under the toning. It looks as if it has been lightly cleaned, but not to the extent to bar slabbing. However one would have to see that coin in person to verify that.

 

The 1803 looks like a borderline cleaned coin to me. The surfaces have been dipped at a minimum if not more. PCGS has gone through periods where they were pretty loose in grading these coins.

 

I once had a piece on consignment in PCGS EF holder that had initials lightly scratched into the obverse field. My guess is the PCGS grader missed them. The dealer who owned the piece said they net graded from AU. This could have been true because I’ve seen early coins net graded in PCGS holders although it did say that in so many words on the holder. I didn’t agree with that because the coin was not AU without the problems IMO.

 

Here are a couple of half dimes from the period. The 1796 flunked and got a body bag from NGC. The 1797 was graded although it had been lightly cleaned many years ago. The person who cleaned it left his thumb mark on the obverse! Still this is the 13 star variety, which is a very scarce coin with less than 50 survivors. It’s rated as an R-6 (13 to 30 known).

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Hi, Al! Welcome to the neighborhood. I have to laugh at your title. It sounds like you're implying that James cleans all of his coins.

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

Sweet collection! As a type collector I can only be envious.

 

Here's your photos followed by auto adjust. I think that evidence of cleaning can be seen with these images. They are all worthy of most any collection even with the slight problems.

[BillJones]

Some coins that have been cleaned or whizzed can be very deceptive. This 1853 arrows and rays half dollar has been whizzed, but the lines only show at certain angles. At most angles the coin appears to be a well preserved (EF) gray colored silver piece.

 

.