James is at it again!

[cpm9ball]

It's been awhile since he listed anything on eBay, but leave it to James to try to ruffle some feathers in his own way. Sometimes it's about grading, sometimes it's about "original skin", sometimes he's just making a (deserved) mockery of one thing or another, but this time..................

 

"Due to eBay's recent short-sighted policy changes for coins, I no longer accept returns on PCGS, NGC or ANACS items."

 

I'm surprised they haven't pulled your listings, again, James! Keep up the good work!

 

Chris

[CHABSENTIA]

While not mentioed in the same way there have been many who will not accept returns on "graded coins".

 

Don't know if that includes all graded coins such as SGS and PCI

[cpm9ball]

While not mentioed in the same way there have been many who will not accept returns on "graded coins".

 

Don't know if that includes all graded coins such as SGS and PCI

 

To fully understand my point, you would have had to have read some of James' listings that were pulled by eBay. Some of them were hysterical, and James has become very adept at tongue-in-cheek rabble-rousing. However, I don't believe that James has previously refused refunds on slabs.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

 

Rabble rouser? Little 'ol me?

 

Nah, couldn't be.

 

[cpm9ball]

 

Rabble rouser? Little 'ol me?

 

Nah, couldn't be.

 

 

Maybe I shouldn't have prefaced it with "tongue-in-cheek". Now that I think of it, "Doritos-in-cheek" would be more appropriate. (thumbs u

 

Chris

[DC Dawg]

 

Rabble rouser? Little 'ol me?

 

Nah, couldn't be.

 

Ok... I have to ask... why did you add this to your auctions?

 

Scott

 

[James_OldeTowne]

The fact that eBay allows numeric grades to advertised ONLY on N/P/A/I slabs (NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG) implies to me that they want you to sell the slab, not the coin. To me, it is not fair to put certifed coins on an uneven playing field with raw coins. In other words, if I guarantee my coins 100% by offering a money-back guarantee in case a coin doesn't grade, why shouldn't I be allowed to advertise that grade? But eBay no longer allows this.

 

The way I look at it, if ONLY slabbed coins are "good enough" to allow the grade to be advertised, why do I need to guarantee something that the slabbing company ALREADY guarantees?

 

I know I'll get lower sales for this, but really, at this point, I don't care. I only plan to sell on eBay those coins that I don't care about in the least. I think eBay took a very poor direction in trying to address all the problems with fraud.

[Bruceswar]

James I have to agree with you on this point. Raw coins have been around even before slabs were even dreamed of. Grades followed shortly after I guess. Now with the invent of slabs, nobody can grade anymore but only a few select companies around the US. Seems very backwards to me. In trying to protect the newbies who do not have the time or want to learn how to grade, Ebay has made a bad choice.

[CHABSENTIA]

I was just mentioning a few from my experience.Some do and some don;t One even allowed thirty days on NGC Slabs to have a Variey Plus on it.

[Bruceswar]

Given the chance I am sure James would make it right. His auction statement is a jab at Ebay...

[James_OldeTowne]

Given the chance I am sure James would make it right. His auction statement is a jab at Ebay...

 

 

I've never, ever turned down a return. Interestingly, I've only had maybe five coins ever returned in the last ten years, and that includes one within the last week (not from ebay).

[DC Dawg]

The way I look at it, if ONLY slabbed coins are "good enough" to allow the grade to be advertised, why do I need to guarantee something that the slabbing company ALREADY guarantees?

James... I also do not like the new Ebay rules, but I could not figure out how to put it into words. You did a great job in expressing how I feel!

 

I remember my first impression was "what about PCI and SEGS?" Ok... neither are the "top tier" (read: NGC/PCGS) TPGs, but isn't SEGS the "Official Authenticator" of the Full-Step Nickel Club? Doesn't PCI and JT Stanton have a good reputation for authenticating die varieties? I believe there is a market for these services and Ebay should not be dictating market acceptance!

 

Good going, James!

 

Scott

[CHABSENTIA]

I think the whole thing has to be uniform.If I buy a coin slabbed by SGS and NEC to name a few then can I send them to NGC and PCGS and be guaranteed to receive at least the same grade or not worse than one grade below it?

 

I bid on a coin the other day.I set my limits and how much I want to pay for it. This other buyer was the only one bidding with me after a certain point.This buyer had a feedback of "1" after their name.The end of bidding was pretty close to the maximum value of this certified coin.. If he wants it for a collection then this os one thing.If he bought it for the purpose of reselling it then he is going to have a problem in the near future. because it is close to the maximum value and it was NGC and the figures are accepted and there for all to see. If this had been one slabbed by SGS and sold for the NGC Price then there will probably be problems..

 

I keep going to the 2007W Silver Eagle.Wen it first came out they were all over E-Bay.Dealers were trying to trade on the success of the 2006W. Last I checked there were over 13,000 of them in the MS70 State.Over 13,000 in MS70.This is absurd.You can now get one on Ebay for less than $70.00 for an MS70 and these over priced T.V. Coin shows are selling them for $149.00.If they wern;t getting it then they would come down in Price.People can go to the NGC Population report and see they are over priced.

 

I see it all the time where somebody is actually bidding a higher price for the same coin that can be purchased at a lesser price as a BIN for the same coin.I have actually ran across sellers on E Bay that have coins slabbed by a lesser recognized company and they "claim the NGC population for the same coin" or they say the " coin trends at such and such a price and quote the NGC Price for that particular coin.

 

I don't know but I suspect that the policy is is response by such actions and others that have received numerous complaints from people who have found that their purchase is worth considerably less than that touted by sme sellers.I even wrote one of them that claimed the NGC Population figures for a really cut rate slab company and when he told me that this was the population report I asked to see it. He told me that " he didn't have to show me anything" and that he was going to report me to E Bay for harassment if I kept asking him'.

 

Until Sellers such as this are banned from Ebay and until all grading services are at least relatively recognozed then thereis going to be a problem.

 

While it is correct that the four Companies appear to be favored and have a definite Monetary advantage because of it there will still be people who take advantage of others and people for whatever allow it to happen.

 

It might also be an attempt by Ebay to protect it from some future Liability on the advice of Lawyers.Unfortunatley the above actiions all have their source as greed and their actions were not policed even if it is a small percentage.

[MikeInFL]

The fact that eBay allows numeric grades to advertised ONLY on N/P/A/I slabs (NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG) implies to me that they want you to sell the slab, not the coin. To me, it is not fair to put certifed coins on an uneven playing field with raw coins. In other words, if I guarantee my coins 100% by offering a money-back guarantee in case a coin doesn't grade, why shouldn't I be allowed to advertise that grade? But eBay no longer allows this.

 

The way I look at it, if ONLY slabbed coins are "good enough" to allow the grade to be advertised, why do I need to guarantee something that the slabbing company ALREADY guarantees?

 

I know I'll get lower sales for this, but really, at this point, I don't care. I only plan to sell on eBay those coins that I don't care about in the least. I think eBay took a very poor direction in trying to address all the problems with fraud.

 

So you punish your future customers for eBay's transgressions? Please remind me NOT to bid on any of you auctions.

 

That said, if eBay took "a very poor direction in trying to address all the problems with fraud", how would YOU have done it.

 

Respectfully...Mike

[James_OldeTowne]

The fact that eBay allows numeric grades to advertised ONLY on N/P/A/I slabs (NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG) implies to me that they want you to sell the slab, not the coin. To me, it is not fair to put certifed coins on an uneven playing field with raw coins. In other words, if I guarantee my coins 100% by offering a money-back guarantee in case a coin doesn't grade, why shouldn't I be allowed to advertise that grade? But eBay no longer allows this.

 

The way I look at it, if ONLY slabbed coins are "good enough" to allow the grade to be advertised, why do I need to guarantee something that the slabbing company ALREADY guarantees?

 

I know I'll get lower sales for this, but really, at this point, I don't care. I only plan to sell on eBay those coins that I don't care about in the least. I think eBay took a very poor direction in trying to address all the problems with fraud.

 

So you punish your future customers for eBay's transgressions? Please remind me NOT to bid on any of you auctions.

 

That said, if eBay took "a very poor direction in trying to address all the problems with fraud", how would YOU have done it.

 

Respectfully...Mike

Mike, I would simply have allowed numeric grades to be posted for all coins, just like before.

 

There is an obvious and simple solution that eBay had right in their grasp, yet mysteriously chose to ignore. Instead if ridiculous rules regarding how a coin's grade may be stated in the listing title, why not just require that a coin indicated as being "certified" must be in an acceptable holder? Then, bidders can simply choose to see only certified coins through the use of a filter, and voila, only NGC, PCGS et. al. would pop up. Instead, they have put up an artificial, needless and thoroughly useless barrier between coins, whether legitimately graded or not.

 

And by the way, as I'm sure you know, of course I would accept a return for any reason. I just want to make a point, and since the introduction of ebay's recent poor, short-sighted decisions, I frankly don't care about how my auction items do there anymore. eBay has descended well beyond the depths of flea-market hoopla as far as I'm concerned. What was once a fantastic buying and selling venue has become a mockery of ethical business practices. Therefore, they will only see the dredges of my inventory for sale on their site.

 

I hope my point gets across to even the occasional bidder on eBay.

 

Thanks for the counterpoint!

[cpm9ball]

Geez, I'm beginning to feel bad about posting this in the first place! I thought my post that started this thread was perfectly clear, and in no way did I expect that James would have to defend his position. Please accept my apology, James. Sometimes, I just don't understand where people are coming from..............or where they're going.

 

Chris

[CHABSENTIA]

If there is any doubt as to some of these people then read the message on the 1990 Panda and see the attiude of some of the sellers.Even if they make up only 2% then they are giving it a bad name.

 

E bay let it go too long and ignored compalints of people and now this feeble attempt is too little and too late.

[DC Dawg]

It might also be an attempt by Ebay to protect it from some future Liability on the advice of Lawyers.Unfortunatley the above actiions all have their source as greed and their actions were not policed even if it is a small percentage.

The other end of this is that TPGs like SEGS and PCI can call this a restraint of trade--which is also a slippery slop since eBay is a corporation and not a government entity.

 

I am also dismayed that the ANA would agree to this in a matter that seems out of hand. There may be an aspect of this that may be a violation of the ANA's bylaws. But we'll see... there are others with more knowledge in this area looking into this.

 

Scott

[jesbroken]

Had Ebay been interested in doing anything for the buyers or the sellers integrity, which is entirely unlikely, all they had to do is make any seller that wishes to list a grade for his/her coins guarantee the grade to a top TPG. In other words, should a disagreement as to a coin's grade become arguable-send the coin to one of the top TPG's and if it grades as promised the buyer pays, should it grade lower the seller pays-if it grades higher the seller has the right to buy it back at the sold price plus freight. That would put an end to all the improper grades(except, of course, to the newbie sellers who just fold up and start afresh-that would still be under buyer beware). This would give credence to the sellers large buy/sell numbers.

Then if they really wished to clean their act up, place an auto response to all sellers accounts that automatically responds with positive feedback to buyers that pay in a timely manner.

Of course, neither will happen as this was merely an attempt to cloud the eyes of those wanting a perfect world.

[James_OldeTowne]

Had Ebay been interested in doing anything for the buyers or the sellers integrity, which is entirely unlikely, all they had to do is make any seller that wishes to list a grade for his/her coins guarantee the grade to a top TPG.

Hi jesbroken! I would respectfully submit that there are three huge problems with this idea.

 

First of all, the majority of coins on eBay are cheap, and don't come close to justifying the $25 cost just to get a certified grading opinion. Second, this immediately excludes all "problem" coins that PCGS and NGC won't grade or render an opinion on. Finally, if the coin comes back in a HIGHER grade than advertised, then to make things fair, the bidder would have to be obligated to pony up the difference in value.

 

I still think the simple solution is that the eBay search function allow users to include only "certified" coins, and only NGC, PCGS, etc. would be allowed to qualify as "certified".

 

I do believe that the current eBay "solution" is garbage.

[cpm9ball]

Yes, why couldn't they have filters in place for:

 

"CERTIFIED/WARRANTIED ANACS, NGC & PCGS"

"OTHER TPGS' - CERTIFIED"

"OTHER TPGS' - NONCERTIFIED"

"SELF-GRADED - NONCERTIFIED"

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

Excellent! I like it.

[DC Dawg]

Yea... but who's going to suggest this to eBay and the ANA?

I have a feeling that eBay will not do anything without the blessing of the ANA. The ANA's blessing gives them cover!

 

Scott

[cpm9ball]

Yea... but who's going to suggest this to eBay and the ANA?

I have a feeling that eBay will not do anything without the blessing of the ANA. The ANA's blessing gives them cover!

 

Scott

 

Well, if all of us who are members of the ANA sent them an e-mail..............

 

If all of us who buy & sell on eBay sent them an e-mail...........

 

Chris