A Letter from Ron Guth...interesting read.

[MikeKing]

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE PCGS TO DO?

 

We need your input!

 

We are looking for new ways to improve our services to you. This list of suggestions has made it to the concept stage. We need your immediate input as to which ideas you feel would be beneficial to you and to our marketplace.

 

Please take the time to read through this letter and then email your thoughts and comments to me at mailto:MyCommentsCount@PCGS.com. Be blunt: Tell me if you think these ideas are great, or if you don't like them, or if they can be refined. I promise to personally review and consider all comments-so feel free to be as concise or as long-winded as you want to be. What's important is that your input is vital to us.

 

. NET GRADES ON PROBLEM COINS. Should PCGS encapsulate problem coins-the ones that normally end up in 'body bags'? We envision an apparent or detail grade, modified by the defect(s), resulting in a net grade. The insert of the holder would be a different color than the standard PCGS insert so there wouldn't be any confusion about net- graded coins. Since these decisions are already part of the grading process, there would be no additional fee for this service.

 

. GRADES ON CROSSOVERS. Coins submitted to PCGS for crossover service that don't meet PCGS standards for the grade are returned without a grade or comment. Would you be interested to know the PCGS grade or, if it's a problem coin, why it didn't cross? Since these decisions are already part of the grading process, there would be no additional fee for this service.

 

. OTHER HOLDERS IN THE PCGS SET REGISTRY. If PCGS came up with a solution to grades on coins that did not cross over, should those coins be eligible for inclusion in the PCGS Set Registry? This would allow you to keep your coin in another company's holder at a higher grade, but still allow you to include the coin in your Set Registry at the PCGS grade. You could identify the grade by viewing a special database on our website. Perhaps each eligible non-PCGS coin could carry a PCGS holographic approval sticker.

 

. EXPERT COMMENTS FOR YOUR COINS. Would you like to have expert comments on your coins? These comments could be in written or video form and could include descriptive comments by PCGS experts or outside experts whose opinions are respected in their areas of expertise. Imagine typing in your coin's certification number using the PCGS Cert Verification service and being able to pull up expert comments specific to your coin. To indicate which coins have online comments available, we would put a checkmark on the insert next to the certification number. This would be a fee-based service.

 

. PREMIUM-QUALITY IDENTIFIERS. Should PCGS identify coins that are high-end for the grade? It is a marketplace reality that coins are graded on a continuum, and that not all coins assigned the same numerical grade are of the exact same quality. Some coins are high end for the grade, and these premium-quality coins often bring premium-quality prices in the market. Should these coins be identified by PCGS with a plus sign, letter grade (such as an "A"), holographic sticker, fractional grade, or in another way? We envision the high end to be 30% to 50% of the coins we grade. What do you think the percentage is? For new submissions, this would probably be part of our service at no extra charge. For coins already in PCGS holders, maybe we would do a certain number for free as a service, but then charge for the service. For coins of other grading services, we would charge for these opinions.

 

We feel these are bold and creative ideas, and we would like to hear your opinion before we implement any of them. Again, feel free to comment as much or as little as you'd like.

 

And if there's something else on your mind that you don't see here, please let me know about that, too.

 

Thank you for your vital input. We would like your comments as soon as possible, preferably before October 19th!

 

Sincerely,

 

PROFESSIONAL COIN GRADING SERVICE

 

 

Ron Guth

President

 

 

[cpm9ball]

I don't think these ideas are anything bold or creative since other grading services have already offered some of these concepts, but it would be a step in the right direction.

 

Now, if they would just reduce their membership and grading fees for the everyday, non-dealer/collector, maybe they would attract more business.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

I think that regardless of what "we" think, PCGS is planning to, and in fact will do all five of those things. Why not? They basically have to if they want any chance to keep up with NGC.

[MikeKing]

AND the CAC

[carson city]

The CAC will soon be a forgotten Wannabe grading service. NGC & PCGS will lead the coin collecting world into the future.

[Tradedollarnut]

The CAC isn't even a grading service. Get your facts correct, CC.

[Tradedollarnut]

These are all good and interesting prospective services from PCGS - many of which they vowed never to do. I guess a little competition forcing innovation is a good thing!

[MikeInFL]

I guess a little competition forcing innovation is a good thing!

Precisely.

[pendragon1998]

Generally, when you ask someone if they'd mind if you give them more product or do more work for them in exchange for zero additional money from you, they're going to say "go for it." Seems obvious to me.

[DC Dawg]

. OTHER HOLDERS IN THE PCGS SET REGISTRY. If PCGS came up with a solution to grades on coins that did not cross over, should those coins be eligible for inclusion in the PCGS Set Registry? This would allow you to keep your coin in another company's holder at a higher grade, but still allow you to include the coin in your Set Registry at the PCGS grade. You could identify the grade by viewing a special database on our website. Perhaps each eligible non-PCGS coin could carry a PCGS holographic approval sticker.

(emphasis added) This is not a "free" add-on. I am sure that there will be a charge for this service. I can see them saying for a price (say $5 for shipping), we'll sticker your non-PCGS holder for "approval." Would this, and the "Premium-quality Identifiers" be a way of trying to circumvent the potential effects of the CAC??

 

Competition is good!!

 

Now, if we can get NGC or someone else to do a registry of other holders....

 

Scott

[Keleum]

I tend to agree, as a company you solicit opinions to get buy-in from your major customers not to give people a vote.

 

Heck, if PCGS won't do something equivalent to a fractional and net grading someone else will. There's just too much money to be made.

 

Net grading is one of those things, that I thought of as money left on the table the TPGs were ignoring. They could simply add a fee, or at least increase the # of coins they graded.

[physics-fan3.14]

Perhaps each eligible non-PCGS coin could carry a PCGS

holographic approval sticker.

 

This was one of the things I thought funniest. Trying to pre-empt a certain group, are we?

 

PREMIUM-QUALITY IDENTIFIERS. Should PCGS identify coins that are

high-end for the grade? It is a marketplace reality that coins are

graded on a continuum, and that not all coins assigned the same numerical

grade are of the exact same quality. ... We envision the high end to be 30% to 50% of the coins we grade.

 

Shouldn't the high end be 33% or so? I mean: low, middle, high. Or is the 50% just more gradeflation?

 

I do like the video comments idea, although I can just see some jokers getting comments on all their PR70 modern widgets.

[rbrown4]

I find this all very interesting given the current potential changes to the industry with CAC, etc. I have opinions but there are others here with much more experience and knowledge than I and I am kind of surprised at the lack of responses to this post. It would be interesting to hear what more of both the proponents and opponents to CAC have to say about this development. To me it seems there are some significant changes coming regardless of the company, services offered etc.

 

Rey

[James_OldeTowne]

Part of the reason for the seeming "lack of response" may be because all five ideas are something NGC's been doing for years, meaning it's old hat, no big deal, passe.

 

It's like, PCGS wants to move up to being only about ten years behind NGC.

[MAULEMALL]

Part of the reason for the seeming "lack of response" may be because all five ideas are something NGC's been doing for years, meaning it's old hat, no big deal, passe.

 

It's like, PCGS wants to move up to being only about ten years behind NGC.

Pretty much the way I see it as well James..

[Tradedollarnut]

I pushed hard for PCGS to allow other coins on the Registry with a 'Registry Sticker' grade 4 or 5 years ago. At the time they stated no way. I'm happy to see them reconsider.

 

A truly top tier classic set simply cannot be realistically created in only one company's holders without making significant compromises in quality or subjecting oneself to losing large amounts of money by downgrade crossing.

 

[Tradedollarnut]

Part of the reason for the seeming "lack of response" may be because all five ideas are something NGC's been doing for years, meaning it's old hat, no big deal, passe.

 

It's like, PCGS wants to move up to being only about ten years behind NGC.

 

Really? NGC denotes PQ on their coins? They provide a net grade? A sticker grade for Registry participation?

 

Agreed that NGC does something similar, but your statement is substantially incorrect.

[MAULEMALL]

Part of the reason for the seeming "lack of response" may be because all five ideas are something NGC's been doing for years, meaning it's old hat, no big deal, passe.

 

It's like, PCGS wants to move up to being only about ten years behind NGC.

 

Really? NGC denotes PQ on their coins? They give a star for exceptional eye appeal They provide a net grade? They do this through NCS A sticker grade for Registry participation? They don't need a sticker as they allow pcgs graded coins in the registry

 

Agreed that NGC does something similar, but your statement is substantially incorrect.

Similar schimiler...They did ALL these things while DH twiddled his arrogant fingers and allowed pcgs to be WAY behind the times...

Now RG sends out a email and everyone is supposed to bow down and exalt the praises of pcgs for being inovative

 

[gmarguli]

GRADES ON CROSSOVERS. Coins submitted to PCGS for crossover service that don't meet PCGS standards for the grade are returned without a grade or comment. Would you be interested to know the PCGS grade or, if it's a problem coin, why it didn't cross? Since these decisions are already part of the grading process, there would be no additional fee for this service.

 

No. Instead of providing grades, why not just actually cross over all the coins that deserve to be crossed? That way instead of crossing 15% of coins, you can cross 95% and that will remove all the person_without_enough_empathying and wondering about why it didn't cross.

 

 

OTHER HOLDERS IN THE PCGS SET REGISTRY. If PCGS came up with a solution to grades on coins that did not cross over, should those coins be eligible for inclusion in the PCGS Set Registry? This would allow you to keep your coin in another company's holder at a higher grade, but still allow you to include the coin in your Set Registry at the PCGS grade. You could identify the grade by viewing a special database on our website. Perhaps each eligible non-PCGS coin could carry a PCGS holographic approval sticker.

 

Seriously, are there still people who care about the PCGS-only registry? Seriously! Anyone?

 

 

PREMIUM-QUALITY IDENTIFIERS. Should PCGS identify coins that are high-end for the grade? It is a marketplace reality that coins are graded on a continuum, and that not all coins assigned the same numerical grade are of the exact same quality. Some coins are high end for the grade, and these premium-quality coins often bring premium-quality prices in the market. Should these coins be identified by PCGS with a plus sign, letter grade (such as an "A"), holographic sticker, fractional grade, or in another way? We envision the high end to be 30% to 50% of the coins we grade. What do you think the percentage is? For new submissions, this would probably be part of our service at no extra charge. For coins already in PCGS holders, maybe we would do a certain number for free as a service, but then charge for the service. For coins of other grading services, we would charge for these opinions.

 

 

 

We feel these are bold and creative ideas...

 

...and we hope to implement them before the end of 1998?

[Tradedollarnut]

Part of the reason for the seeming "lack of response" may be because all five ideas are something NGC's been doing for years, meaning it's old hat, no big deal, passe.

 

It's like, PCGS wants to move up to being only about ten years behind NGC.

 

Really? NGC denotes PQ on their coins? They give a star for exceptional eye appeal They provide a net grade? They do this through NCS A sticker grade for Registry participation? They don't need a sticker as they allow pcgs graded coins in the registry

 

Agreed that NGC does something similar, but your statement is substantially incorrect.

Similar schimiler...They did ALL these things while DH twiddled his arrogant fingers and allowed pcgs to be WAY behind the times...

Now RG sends out a email and everyone is supposed to bow down and exalt the praises of pcgs for being inovative

 

Exceptional eye appeal does not directly equate to PQ for the grade. NCS does NOT provide a net grade for problem coins, they provide a details grade. Yes, NGC allows PCGS coins, but what about the dozen or so other holders?

 

Like I said, similar but not the same.

[rbrown4]

James and MM,

 

Well noted and thanks.

 

Rey

[Zoins]

It would be cool if the sticker said "Registry Quality"

[James_OldeTowne]

Part of the reason for the seeming "lack of response" may be because all five ideas are something NGC's been doing for years, meaning it's old hat, no big deal, passe.

 

It's like, PCGS wants to move up to being only about ten years behind NGC.

 

Really? NGC denotes PQ on their coins? They provide a net grade? A sticker grade for Registry participation?

 

Agreed that NGC does something similar, but your statement is substantially incorrect.

Incorrect, but close enough!

[carson city]

Sell Crazy Someplace Else, We're All Stocked Up---Jack Nicholson "As Good As It Gets ".

[jom]

. GRADES ON CROSSOVERS. Coins submitted to PCGS for crossover service that don't meet PCGS standards for the grade are returned without a grade or comment. Would you be interested to know the PCGS grade or, if it's a problem coin, why it didn't cross? Since these decisions are already part of the grading process, there would be no additional fee for this service.

 

. EXPERT COMMENTS FOR YOUR COINS. Would you like to have expert comments on your coins? These comments could be in written or video form and could include descriptive comments by PCGS experts or outside experts whose opinions are respected in their areas of expertise. Imagine typing in your coin's certification number using the PCGS Cert Verification service and being able to pull up expert comments specific to your coin. To indicate which coins have online comments available, we would put a checkmark on the insert next to the certification number. This would be a fee-based service.

 

I've never understood why these haven't been done from the beginning. IMO, you pay for the opinion so you should receive one. Whether it's a refused Crossover, or a bodybag they should give you a specific written reason why it failed whatever it failed.

 

jom

[gmarguli]

I've never understood why these haven't been done from the beginning. IMO, you pay for the opinion so you should receive one. Whether it's a refused Crossover, or a bodybag they should give you a specific written reason why it failed whatever it failed.

 

jom

 

They do. For example, check any of your gold coins you have submitted. On the back of the bodybag it says Artificial Toning.

 

And would you want a true reason for failure to crossover? Do you want to see "Quota Reached" or "This coin is way more expensive in PCGS plastic and we won't allow that to cross" or "It's solid for the grade, but we need to meet analysts earnings numbers, so resubmit it raw and we'll see"?

[cpm9ball]

Well, even though I'm not a PCGS member and I will probably be told to mind my own business, I just sent Mr. Guth a two+ page response to his 1-page inquiry.

 

Chris

[TwoKopeiki]

 

They do. For example, check any of your gold coins you have submitted. On the back of the bodybag it says Artificial Toning.

 

And would you want a true reason for failure to crossover? Do you want to see "Quota Reached" or "This coin is way more expensive in PCGS plastic and we won't allow that to cross" or "It's solid for the grade, but we need to meet analysts earnings numbers, so resubmit it raw and we'll see"?

 

Greg, is there a source for those statements, or is that how you percieve the situation?

 

~Roman

[gmarguli]

 

They do. For example, check any of your gold coins you have submitted. On the back of the bodybag it says Artificial Toning.

 

And would you want a true reason for failure to crossover? Do you want to see "Quota Reached" or "This coin is way more expensive in PCGS plastic and we won't allow that to cross" or "It's solid for the grade, but we need to meet analysts earnings numbers, so resubmit it raw and we'll see"?

 

Greg, is there a source for those statements, or is that how you percieve the situation?

 

~Roman

 

Well, there was the old David Hall quote where he mentions that PCGS gets to cross the cream of the crop of NGC graded coins. To me it was clear that they were crossing the nice coins and not all the ones that made the grade.

 

Also, common sense shows that based on the low crossover percentages vs. the high percentage of similarity in grading between PCGS & NGC, that something is not correct.

[MikeInFL]

 

They do. For example, check any of your gold coins you have submitted. On the back of the bodybag it says Artificial Toning.

 

And would you want a true reason for failure to crossover? Do you want to see "Quota Reached" or "This coin is way more expensive in PCGS plastic and we won't allow that to cross" or "It's solid for the grade, but we need to meet analysts earnings numbers, so resubmit it raw and we'll see"?

 

Greg, is there a source for those statements, or is that how you percieve the situation?

 

~Roman

 

Well, there was the old David Hall quote where he mentions that PCGS gets to cross the cream of the crop of NGC graded coins. To me it was clear that they were crossing the nice coins and not all the ones that made the grade.

 

Also, common sense shows that based on the low crossover percentages vs. the high percentage of similarity in grading between PCGS & NGC, that something is not correct.

 

Greg,

 

How do you know it may not be because the NGC holders don't allow for edge inspection and this causes some concern by PCGS when doing crossovers, rather than the conspiracy theory based on a David Hall quote from many moons ago?

 

And FWIW, I see little "similarity" in grading of large cents (the series I'm most comfortable grading), where NGC consistently grades at least one grade higher and is far more lenient when it comes to interpreting "market acceptable" recolorings, IMHO....Mike