Help identifying a Civil war Token dated 1841?

[dooly]

This token has just come into my possession via eBay and thus far i have not been able to track it down can anyone help me out ?

 

sellers stunning images !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

images after i have lightened them

 

 

what i cannot understand is the 1841 date on the token any ideas ?

 

cheers dooly

[Zoins]

what i cannot understand is the 1841 date on the token any ideas ?

It says 1841 because it's a Hard Times Token not a Civil War Token.

 

Both Hard Times and Civil War Tokens circulated as coins in their day.

[dooly]

Cheers i will get that book out and have a look at them (thumbs u

 

see that's what happens when you take the sellers description for granted

[robec1347]

It is not a civil war token, but was the rallying cry of Americans against the "Barbary Pirates" who kidnapped American sailors and held them for ransom. Sort of like todays hijackings. Here is a link to one site.

 

Link

[Zoins]

I found this article informative regarding the Muslim Barbary pirates. The article has some information about how these pirate treated their captives which may not be different than how Coptic Christians are treated in modern-day Egypt. I haven't included that section in the quote below.

During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey’s ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

 

In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam “was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

 

For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in 1800.

 

Not long after Jefferson’s inauguration as president in 1801, he dispatched a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress.

 

Declaring that America was going to spend “millions for defense but not one cent for tribute,” Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying American Marines and many of America’s best warships to the Muslim Barbary Coast.

 

The USS Constitution , USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.

 

In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all American slaves.

 

During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim Barbary States, crumbling as a result of intense American naval bombardment and on shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery and piracy.

 

Jefferson’s victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine Hymn, with the line, “From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, we will fight our country’s battles on the land as on the sea.”

 

It wasn’t until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates.

It's interesting that religion is still part of the conflict between the United States and the Mulim nations.

 

The "hard times" occurred during the 1830s when Andrew Jackson revoked the charter of the Bank of the United States. The tokens used Jefferson's “millions for defense but not one cent for tribute" as a play on words "one cent" to avoid charges of producing counterfeit coins.

[BillJones]

As the others have written this is a Hard Times token, not a Civil War token. The variety is HT 58, which was listed as token number 69 in Lyman Low's classic work. It is an R-1 variety and common as these things go, although compared to the large cents of the period, they are scarcer.

 

The "Millions for defense" slogan had its origins in a couple of places. As others said it had to do with NOT paying bribes to the Barbary pirates. It also probably applied to the “XYZ affair” when the French diplomat, Talleyrand, demanded that U.S. ministers to France pay bribes before they could have access to the French Court. But these issues were hot circa 1799 NOT 1837.

 

By the late 1830s and early ‘40s it’s hard to figure out what political significance the “Millions for defense” slogan had. It may have had something to do with the “Aroosack War” which was a border dispute between the citizens of Maine and Canada. There were a few folks who ready to pick up a gun to settle it, but cooler heads did finally prevail.

 

At any rate my impression of this variety of Hard Times token is that it was mostly non-political. (Many Hard Times tokens had VERY political themes. I have collected those pieces pretty extensively.) Its main purpose was to service in place of regular U.S. coinage when coinage was in short supply during the very bad economic depression of 1837 to 1843 or so. During this period a lot of people did lose their jobs. And at this time before the modern “safety nets” like unemployment insurance and welfare, people did freeze and starve to death. Back then politicians did not think that it was the government’s duty to provide welfare payments.

 

[Zoins]

This page says the following about various slogans on Hard Times coin:

"I take the responsibilty", says Andrew Jackson, standing in an empty treasure chest. Martin Van Buren's ship of state has tattered sails on the obverse of a coin; the reverse shows Henry Clay's sails billowing. "I follow in the steps of my illustrious predecessor", says the jacka** on the obverse while the reverse shows a treasure chest being borne off by a turtle. "Good for shinplasters" refers to worthless paper money used as stuffing in boots. Some, to avoid charges of counterfeiting bear the slogan "Millions for defense NOT ONE CENT for tribute."

 

 

[dooly]

Cheers all this is turning out to be a very informative post guess i will keep my eyes out for more of them...

 

In my book it lists HT 58 with the reverse of HT51 "which has six berries inside and two outside .. but my tokens seams to have 4 berries inside and three outside would that make it a scovill strike (HT 56,57,58,61 or 62) ?

[BillJones]

The "I follow in the steps of my illustrious predecessor” quote came from Martin Van Buren’s inauguration address. To those who liked Andrew Jackson, that was just fine with them. To those who detested Jackson, and they were a vocal minority, it only proved that Van Buren would be a jacka** just like his mentor.

 

A month into his term in office Van Buren got hit with the Panic of 1837. The causes were varied, but part of blame had to be laid to Jackson’s economic policies. Van Buren did not deserve any of the blame, at least not in the beginning. But as so often happens for the president who is in office when the stuff hits the fan, he got the blame. A favorite chant was “Van Van’s a used up man!” and “Martin Van Ruin.”

 

[IGWT]

Aroosack War

 

Make that the Aroostook War. Aroostook County is Maine's largest and northernmost county. Many people don't realize how large Maine is; Aroostook County alone is larger than the State of Connecticut.

[James_OldeTowne]

In my experience, this "hard times token" is indeed an R1. It is one of the most common ones I run across in folks' collections.

[dooly]

Cheers all this is turning out to be a very informative post guess i will keep my eyes out for more of them...

 

In my book it lists HT 58 with the reverse of HT51 "which has six berries inside and two outside .. but my tokens seams to have 4 (possably 5) berries inside and three outside would that make it a scovill strike (HT 56,57,58,61 or 62) ?