Dipped vs. Original skinned

[ms66quarters]

I was thinking about the difference (if any) that if you had an original skinned (silver coin) and put it in an old Wayte Raymond,or a Dansco, or any other album...that is known for toning coin's,would the toning come more natural,(or sooner) versus a coin that had been dipped!

 

In other word's, doe's natural skinned silver coin's tone better than dipped silver coin's....or doe's it matter.

 

Any example's or storie's or experiment's....just curious!!!

 

Rob

[TomB]

This is all anecdotal so please don't expect me to be able to defend everything I write with with at-hand examples.

 

It is my experience that coins that are dipped do tone at an accelerated rate if they aren't properly washed, neutralized and dried. The toning is usually in the burnt chestnut to splotchy grey color. In contrast, coins that are properly dipped, washed and neutralized seem to tone at a slower rate than those that have not been altered. In my mind, it seems easy to think that the stripped surfaces of the properly altered coin have to build up the base of oxidation that is already present on coins that are not previously stripped. This build up takes time and slows the appearance of toning.

[ms66quarters]

Tom,

 

 

So,is it that the (chemical's) left on the coin, from an improper bath lead's to the splotchy toning.

 

Would a "proper" bath and wash lead to a more favorable toning.

 

The reason for the thread is that I have a set of silver washington quarter's in a Dansco album, I've had them in there for almost 3 year's and some of the thick frosty skinned coins seem to gather that Dansco honey colored rim toning, while some of the other more "shiny" one's don't have that.

 

Thank's for the reply

 

 

Rob

[BillJones]

Coins often lose some luster after they have been dipped. Therefore they often do not look quite the same when they retone.

 

The kicker however can be the die state. If a silver coin is stuck on a worn die, it may not have as much luster as coin that is struck on a new die. Therefore sometimes it's hard to sell if some pieces have been dipped or not.

 

As for the holders, one dealer told me that old holders do not tone coins as well because much of their sulfur content, which darkens silver, has escaped. I think that there is some truth to this. A bright silver coin that is stored in a Waite Raymond holder or a U.S. Mint double mint set holder will tone over time (I've done this for a period of several years with bright white original coins), but the toning will take longer and probably will not be as intense.

[TomB]

Hi Rob, I agree with what Bill has also told you about sulfur leaching out of paper over time. I am also intimately familiar with the type of Dansco toning you are writing about and I find it very attractive. In my experience, coins with more PL surfaces tone less in Dansco albums. Also, if the coin is near the edge of the album then there is more air flow and the coin will tone more quickly and intensely. Coins that are in the center of the pages are likely to stay bright white while those on the edges are likely to take on a toned cast. The older, mintmarked coins are the most likely to have been dipped but it is impossible for me to know based upon what you have written. It would be nice to see an image of your set, do you have one?

[mlovest]

Ok, what is dipping? Geez, I really have been away from coins for too long...

[ms66quarters]

Bill,

 

Your reply about the state of the die's really make sense!

40+ year's of experience are invaluable.THANK'S

 

Tom,

 

SORRY....no scanner,or camera

 

As far as the coin's on the outer edge's I just looked and my 41-S 44-P 48-S 50-D 50-S 59-P and the 59-D have traces of the toning around the rim's.....and all of them are on the outer edge of the page's. EXCELLENT OBSERVATION

 

Thank's again Tom

 

Rob

[EZ_E]

In order to achieve maximum eye-appeal while toning in an album, it is a good idea to tilt the coins at an angle in the slots in order to obtain a crescent-shaped tone.

[nwcs]

I think a lot of it also has to do with the mint's procedures that year. How they washed the planchets and prepared them. Some coins, like peace dollars, do not tone as well or as much as morgan dollars. Mostly due to the washing procedure of the planchets. I have a natural toning experiment going on. Several 90% JFKs, 40% JFKs, several 80% foreign, and 1 90% Franklin. So far, 2 of the 4 90% JFKs have toned quite nicely over the past 5 months. The Franklin has toned nicely, too, but not to the same degree and extent. The foreign has barely toned at all. The 40% JFKs haven't toned any. The other 90% JFKs have tiny patches of toning.

 

Notes: All the JFKs came from the same original roll (1 for the 64, one for the 69D). None of the coins were previously dipped. All stored under the same conditions in the same location for the same amount of time. What I did was put them into a book from the 1920s and put the book in my garage where the temperature and humidity and light levels change like it would have in earlier years of the mint.

[James_OldeTowne]

My experience is that coins which have been dipped tone at an accelerated rate.

[Hoot]

Ok, what is dipping? Geez, I really have been away from coins for too long...

 

mlovest - Heritage Coin Glossary defines dipping as follows:

 

"A coin which has been cleaned in a soap solution, the most popular of which is called Jewel Luster, is said to have been dipped. The term "dipped" is not necessary in, say, a catalog description of a coin, unless the dipping has caused noticeable dulling of lustre, or an otherwise unnatural appearance (typically on copper coins). The practice of dipping coins is not advisable, except by bonafide experts, and then only on rare occasions."

 

Hoot

[chinook]

These are the kind of threads we need more of.

[ms66quarters]

James,

 

Not ot get off track, but that is a shame about that Hibernia,I'm in the service business....as they say customer's make payday's.

 

Anyway,with your experience has the toning been acceptable (pretty) or mottled,and splotchy?

 

Also, with your experience's have you submitted any of these coin's for grading,and if you did,would you be willing to tell us what the end result's were.

 

Thank's for the response.

 

Rob

[ms66quarters]

Victor,

 

Just curious

 

Is one album more preferred over another?

 

Rob

[TomB]

In my experience you are more likely to obtain a semi-trasparent golden-blue haze type of patina with a Dansco and I view this type of skin to be especially attractive. As for the Classic Whitman series, I have seen a large number of silver coins that have stayed lustrous and white over most of the coin while the edges turn crescents of deep blue and gold. The visual impact is quite nice. The old Wayte Raymond and Meghrig holders had a much higher tendancy to tone silver coins with a pure green or red color but the predominant color was a deep auburn. This kind of album also produced a splotchy toning pattern, on average. Of course, the paper used in the old cardboard double US Mint Sets (1947-1958 exclusive of 1950) gave a slightly different look each year and ran the entire spectrum of colors.

 

Overall, it is my opinion that more coins are toned in an eye appeal neutral or eye appeal negative fashion than are toned in an eye appeal positive fashion. Please understand that when I write that I am speaking from my own experience and I am passionate about superbly toned coinage.

[ms66quarters]

Tom,

 

Your knowledge is greatly appreciated.

 

Rob

[michael]

woe a grreat thread and all sum this up nicely as to the post of toms above me he says this really very well as per attractiveness of toning

 

to hit all the areas right to get a monster toned coin is rare victor said if the coin is pushed in at an angle and the album is a wayte raymond exact same album as a mehrig or a natikonal coin album just different names i guess if at an angle with all the right circumstances and the right about of high moisture you could get a really nice raniblw crescent toning

 

i guess just the hand of fate but as tom says usually the toning is unattractuive and at best neutral

 

so to get a great monster toned coin with a high technical quality to it is well uncommon

 

michael

[James_OldeTowne]

I can't speak to dipping specifically. But one thing I am sure of, a lightly cleaned coin has a better tendency to tone in an album than one that is original. I'm basing this on having purchased a few such albums in my time, and have noticed that frequently, the hairlined coins - those that had their original surfaces mechanically removed - toned more beautifully than those that were uncleaned. I'd assume the same holds true for dipping.

 

James

[SilverEagleCoins]

Anyone have a pic of an over-dipped coin? I was surfing eBay and found a whole bunch of Frankies that had great detail but the color looked like the galvanized metal of a chainlink fencepost instead of shiny. I would post the links but I can't find them this morning.