Please evaluate this 1827 Bust Half

[MikeKing]

I bought this on ebay raw.

It has a coppery/bronze color and significant black crust sround the devices.

The surfaces are actually pretty clean, and I don't see any evidence of hairlines, just marks consistent with the grade.

You might see a few fuzzles on the surfaces that it picked up from the piece of paper I sat it on, but didn't see initially, so didn't brush them off.

 

Do you feel this is naturally toned or AT?

Any idea what you think it would grade and the Overton #?

Please feel free to say what you think about this coin, I won't be offended.

 

[just-john]

looks NT to me -curl base 2 and I also like the was the seven looks at the top on the side of the 2 ,I'm not good at grading these but ms55 to ms 58 ?

[SlumLord98-migration]

Hi Michael,

 

It looks like a nice original 27 146 in EF. What do you think of it?

[Raybo55]

Mike,

 

My amature opinion is.........

 

For some reason that black crust does not look right to me.

 

The "crust" looks like it should extend more into the fields, looks like someone shaved some off for some reason.

 

Ray

[MikeKing]

Hi Michael,

 

It looks like a nice original 27 146 in EF. What do you think of it?

 

hey there Brad, I love it. I was concerned though about the coppery coloring and whether it was applied or not. When I examine the surfaces with a glass and under a tungsten light, though, the color appears to have that very mettalic reflective appearance closely adhered to the silver that makes me think it was naturally acquired.

 

Raybo, I wondered the same thing about the crust, but then I looked around my house (I'm embarassed to say) and noticed the corners of the room looked similar to the crevices of this busty, so I can imagine that rather than removal of surface crust all in one swoop, with a cleaning, leaving stuff in the crevices, that circulation, and the cleaning that occurs by just handling, could leave the crevices unattended so to speak, to accumulate dirt, like in this one. Maybe it's something in between.

[TomB]

I like it very much and if it looks in-hand the way I am interpreting the images then I think it is not only a naturally toned EF, but would be a welcomed addition to my collection. (thumbs u

[Stanley]

Mike….I would like to own it….very pretty and nice image ..

[SkyMan]

Nice looking coin. Looks NT to me.

[Raybo55]

Hi Michael,

 

It looks like a nice original 27 146 in EF. What do you think of it?

 

hey there Brad, I love it. I was concerned though about the coppery coloring and whether it was applied or not. When I examine the surfaces with a glass and under a tungsten light, though, the color appears to have that very mettalic reflective appearance closely adhered to the silver that makes me think it was naturally acquired.

 

Raybo, I wondered the same thing about the crust, but then I looked around my house (I'm embarassed to say) and noticed the corners of the room looked similar to the crevices of this busty, so I can imagine that rather than removal of surface crust all in one swoop, with a cleaning, leaving stuff in the crevices, that circulation, and the cleaning that occurs by just handling, could leave the crevices unattended so to speak, to accumulate dirt, like in this one. Maybe it's something in between.

 

Thanks Mike.

 

This coin grading thing is getting harder and harder for me.

 

I'm a hoping you people will set me straight sooner or later.

 

Ray

[Raybo55]

I almost forgot............CLEAN YOUR HOUSE MIKE!

 

Ray

[MBA101]

It looks pretty cool to me. EF 45 to say the least. Looks possibly like where luster remained, it toned black.

[jtryka]

I wonder if the crust could have been acquired from long-term storage in a leather purse?

[rexcat]

Very interesting half Mike, here’s an idea I have; the thick dark toning may have covered more of the coins surfaces at one time and since has been wore back in the larger areas of the fields which maybe had occurred while this half was still circulating, and the coppery/bronze color could have built up after the coin was pulled from circulation and it sat in collections for decades. Another thought I have is some one worked at removing the black crust at one time and gave up because of the sharp looking edges to the black crust.

 

Of course these are just guesses I’m making, your coin is 180 years and no one knows just what went on with this coin other then it’s has wear so it did circulate at one time. I often wonder about how and when old silver coins like yours did acquire their tone and patina, has it been in the last 50 years, or maybe 150 years, when did this half circulate and for how many years? Who collected it and who spent it as cash?

 

So many questions but few answers is part of what I like about your half, but I also think it’s has wonderful eye appeal, I love the crusty stuff. (thumbs u

 

[BillJones]

I grade the coin VF-35 and original or at least "original now." (“Original now = naturally retoned after being dipped years ago. Improper removal of the dipping solution might account for the black toning.) To me there is a little too much wear to call it an EF-40, but it probably qualifies at that level today.

 

I'd leave the toning alone. If you remove the black stuff, you might not be happy with what is underneath.

 

[edmerlr]

Mike...

 

...its obviously the O-146, R2 as pointed out to you before.

 

...gradewise, I cannot tell for sure without the coin in hand, but I believe it would be one of the EF's in today's market. 40 or 45. I am using the right wing, shield and talons to give you my grade opinion.

 

The clear definition between the dark toning around the devices and the lack of dark toning in the fields bothers me. I believe that BillJones is correct when he states that the coin was dipped years ago and improper removal of the dipping solution caused the contrasting toning.

 

I agree with some of the others who have responded. I do believe the coin was completely dark in toning at one time. I do NOT believe the black toning in the fields was worn away in circulation - there is too much dramatic division between the black toning and the coppery/bronze toning.

 

Just because the coin lack hairlines does not mean the coin has not been messed with at least once in the past. It just means the coin was NOT wiped in such a way to cause hairlines.

 

Coppery/bronze toning in the fields tells me that sometime after the dipping the coin was stored for several decades in a coin envelope. I have seen this coppery/bronze toning before. A couple of years ago I bought several Busties from one of the founders of the BHNC (which was started in the 60's). I could easily tell (with his confirmation) which of his coins had spent 20 to 40 years in envelopes and which ones had not.

 

I do not believe that a top-tier TPGS would slab the coin. If you submit it, please tell me if I am wrong - because I have a couple of Busties in the same condition and I would be curious as to your results before I send mine off to be put in plastic coffins and/or body bags.

 

Regards,

 

Ed R.

[okbustchaser]

Mike,

 

(tsk)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeInFL]

Once-dipped and naturally toned but borderline environmental damage -- at least to my eyes...Mike

[JRocco]

Hey Mike,

How are you buddy?

I see a coin here that was once quite normal and quite normally covered in dark normal environmental crud. Kind of like some of those 50's and 60's Lincoln cents you get in change from 711 today. At some point....150,100,75,50 years ago-who knows- someone decided to clean her up a bit. It probably wasn't an advanced collector at the time because he or she would have gotten ALL the old stuff off, but instead, was content to just get "most" of the stuff off. If you look to the left of star 2 or the right of 50 on the reverse you will see what it looks like under the dark crud. Someone tried to get the black crud off but realized what was under there.

 

Based on that, I think the coin was cleaned a while back and has re-colored itself on all exposed parts except the protected parts under the crud.

This one is obviously (to me) cleaned, but probably in an acceptable way if that makes sense.

 

Do not try to remove any of that stuff. Let this one be as she is.

 

[MikeKing]

Well, the actually graded, and I'm glad it did. Came back as a pcgs 40.

 

edited to add: I can't believe I forgot to photograph the edges before having it holdered

[MBA101]

Cool!