What type of coin do you consider a real challenge to collect

[MikeKing]

I'm addicted to Busties, and I find creating a collection of them a challenge, BUT, I don't think they are nearly as challenging as some other types of coins, like

 

Half Cents (try to find decent color whether its B RB or RED, and try to find a really nice planchet)

Matte Proof Lincolns (when they're beautiful they're beautiful, but when they're plain and ugly, they're plain and ugly)

Seated Dollars: try to find decent ones, search and search, most have been ruined.

 

Any ideas out there about difficult or challenging coinage?

 

 

[dooly]

I will go for shield nickel RPD's even if you picked one year to collect it would take you a couple of lifetimes !!!

[supertooth]

Any coin---in any series---if you are hunting for it but cannot find it---is a challenge IMHO. Doesn't matter the mintage of the coin. Bob [supertooth]

[jom]

By far and away the $5 Indian half eagles. OK, I know there are very expensive but even if they were moderate then can be a pain. The series has GOT to be the worst made in the history of the mint so it's hard to find nice ones especially nice AU. I've gotten started with this series twice now only to give up. You really have to go for midland MS pieces or you really won't find anything nice...but then you got the cost problem.

 

jom

[jtryka]

I think Jom is right on there, Saints and Indian eagles are tough for the cost and availability of some dates (27-D Saint or 20-S eagle) but as a series they are mostly available and can be graded but incuse Indians are a bear! Even grading the common ones accurately is a challenge, let alone finding the rare dates and then trying to grade them!

[James_OldeTowne]

Silver three-cent coins are ridiculously difficult in the grade of "extremely fine". You start the collection, and the first half-dozen are quick and easy, then the next half dozen are quite a bit harder, then suddenly ....... WHAM!!!!! You hit the wall on the impossible later dates.

[World Colonial]

All of these examples use US coins. I do not collect them but I just scratch my head when I hear comments about them being hard to find. If someone is talking about a specific grade, eye appeal or completing a series on a relatively tight budget then I can see that. If someone is talking about a US series being hard to find generically in the sense of the coins coming up for sale, I do not see it for hardly any of them.

 

When I get my auction catalogs, I see many instances of supposedly scarce coins being sold in multiple. Like one of the key dates of the $2 1/2 or $5 Indian that had about a dozen specimens in high grade, (I believe it was the 1914-D $5 Indian but would have to check.) Or a coin like the 1893-S Morgan.

 

The Capped Head $5 is a tough series to find. So are specific coins in several others like the 1802 half dime, 1796 half cent and cameo proof two cent pieces. But for most US coins it is a matter of having enouigh discretionary funds to buy them and not finding them. (Or at least that appears to be the case from looking at the Heritage archives.)

 

If any of you receive the Goldberg catalogues, they just sent a brochure on the "Millenia" collection which will be sold in 2008. Now those are rare coins.

[rexcat]

Trying to assemble pre-1916 proof sets can be quite a challenge, just finding all of the denominations for single year can keep you hunting around for a while, and what you really want so the set looks really cool is to have all of the coins to match in eye appeal, condition, coloration and degree of toning. This is especially hard to achieve with the silver pieces which can tone so differently depending how the coins were stored.

 

In my 1903 proof set the two silver pieces I presently own, the Morgan and the half are both nice proofs but they don’t match well in their toning, depending on how the dime and quarter look and are toned, either the dollar or the half may have to be changed before I’d call the set done. I don’t worry about this at all right now seeing I only have half of the coins in a 1903 proof set. And at the rate I’ve been finding coins for this set I may never have to think about it…

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I am finding some of the coins in my French Colonial set to be tough to find. Krause says they were minted by the hundred thousand, but they must have all been melted. I am focusing on Morocco right now, and I swear a couple of the issues are just about nonexistent.

[jtryka]

All of these examples use US coins. I do not collect them but I just scratch my head when I hear comments about them being hard to find. If someone is talking about a specific grade, eye appeal or completing a series on a relatively tight budget then I can see that. If someone is talking about a US series being hard to find generically in the sense of the coins coming up for sale, I do not see it for hardly any of them.

 

When I get my auction catalogs, I see many instances of supposedly scarce coins being sold in multiple. Like one of the key dates of the $2 1/2 or $5 Indian that had about a dozen specimens in high grade, (I believe it was the 1914-D $5 Indian but would have to check.) Or a coin like the 1893-S Morgan.

 

The Capped Head $5 is a tough series to find. So are specific coins in several others like the 1802 half dime, 1796 half cent and cameo proof two cent pieces. But for most US coins it is a matter of having enouigh discretionary funds to buy them and not finding them. (Or at least that appears to be the case from looking at the Heritage archives.)

 

If any of you receive the Goldberg catalogues, they just sent a brochure on the "Millenia" collection which will be sold in 2008. Now those are rare coins.

 

While you are correct for most series, like the Morgans and Indians (my comment related more to the difficulting in grading that series), try finding a 27-D Saint, there are maybe 12 in existence, Heritage has sold 3 since 1995 and the cheapest was in 1995 (only $390,500). The Indian eagles are a little easier, there have been 36 1920-S auctioned by Heritage since 1993, and although there have been a few recently, there were many years where none were sold, like 2003, 1998 and 1996. Of course demand for these coins is much smaller than for the key dates of other series like Morgans or Lincoln cents.

[Zoins]

Gold SCDs often have very small mintages, like less than 5. I have a gold SCD with a mintage of 25 and that's on the high side. Gold SCDs may also come in other metals but that doesn't damper the excitement too much for me.

 

Nice toning can also be challenging.

[just-john]

I would say 2 1/2 Indian gold 1908 thru 1929 really not that old but in high grade above ms 66 with only 7 out of 121130 graded higher by NGC

But the Shield Nickels 1866 thru 1883 with all the varieties-rarities-attribution then a ton of Hubs and clashes

Dooly right 2 life times

 

[BillJones]

I've been collecting the early half dimes (1792 - 1805) for over 30 years. Even back in the good old days, I was lucky to find more than a handful of decent coins at a major show. Today you are lucky if you can find one or two. The mintages of these coins were tiny; the coins were often poorly made by the first mint; and the coins were tiny and delicate and did not fair well in circulation.

 

Here’s a fact that puts things in perspective when it comes to the early half dimes. The common date in the series is 1795. If you think about it, there are really no 1795 dated coins that we could call “common” these days. And yet 1795 is the easiest coin to find as date in the entire series.

 

[MikeInFL]

I have had a great deal of trouble finding even a single example of a circulated trade dollar and seated dollar, and I would rank these series to be the most difficult to find in circulated yet not cleaned condition. I couldn't even imagine how difficult they would be to collect as a series. Classic head large cents would be next on the list of difficult type coins, but I've been able to find a few examples. I do not doubt that the early flowing hair types are equally or even more difficult, but I haven't had enough experience to comment.

[World Colonial]

[While you are correct for most series, like the Morgans and Indians (my comment related more to the difficulting in grading that series), try finding a 27-D Saint, there are maybe 12 in existence, Heritage has sold 3 since 1995 and the cheapest was in 1995 (only $390,500). The Indian eagles are a little easier, there have been 36 1920-S auctioned by Heritage since 1993, and although there have been a few recently, there were many years where none were sold, like 2003, 1998 and 1996. Of course demand for these coins is much smaller than for the key dates of other series like Morgans or Lincoln cents.

 

You are correct about the 1927-D Double Eagle but that is a major rarity in my opinion. There might be as many as 100 US coins that fall into that category (maybe something like 200 if you include patterns, colonials and other similar coins). But the difference is that many or most of these coins are usually still more available than a comporable world coin even when of comporable scarcity. I attribute that to there being more "investors" of US coins which makes them shorter term holders.

 

I also took a look in the Heritage archives for some of the coins listed in this post. For example, the 1903 proof Morgan (which I believe to be the hardest denomination to find of these issues) has 7 sales in 2007. There are almost 5800 trade dollars though I did not look for specific dates or grades. I find it hard to believe that if a buyer has the discretionary funds that they could not find at least ONE coin that would meet their criteria.

 

With world coins, the typical availability in a year is zero to a handful for any specific coin I collect. Frequently none. For example, I am trying to collect the entire date run of Peru pillar 1/2 and 1 real in mint state or close to it. There are 12 1/2 real listed in the NGC census, all AU-55 or above. I own seven of them including every date listed. There must be others (somewhere) given that I bought five of them last year but not many. I do not even see them circulated with more frequency.

 

Perhaps if I were rich, they would become avaialble. There was an article on the Stack's website where they told the story of Josiah K Lilly (associated with the drug firm) and how they completed his $50,000 collection of spanish colonial gold. Harvey Stack and his staff found them through their network. I am convinced that most of the coins I want exist SOMEWHERE, but no dealer is going to do that for the typical collector because we are small buyers.

[TJ'S Coins]

Any coin---in any series---if you are hunting for it but cannot find it---is a challenge IMHO. Doesn't matter the mintage of the coin. Bob [supertooth]

 

I agree with Bob. (thumbs u This is probably why I have started other series while waiting to finish a previous one. If the material is not available it is not available. I've compromised on grade and condition a couple of times to fill a slot but still looking for a better piece to upgrade the core series or collection.

 

For my 7070, Classic Head Large Cents and Seated Dollars were the hardest to find.

[xJack]

Draped Bust Half Dimes (already mentioned)

Draped Bust Dimes

Draped Bust Quarters

Pre-1834 U.S. Gold

 

[jom]

If someone is talking about a US series being hard to find generically in the sense of the coins coming up for sale, I do not see it for hardly any of them.

 

Well, that was kind of my point. I'm not interested in collecting "generic" coins. I've tried to find nice pieces I can afford. I'm sure I can go out right now and find an 09-D $5 Indian or 26-P Eagle or an 81-S Dollar for that matter. That isn't in my interest however. JTryka gave a few examples but try finding a 09-O $5 or a 12-S $5. Have fun NOT collecting anything because you probably won't find it.

 

You are right about the "so-called" rarities. I see many...in fact TONS...of 1916 Quarters, 16-D dimes and 09 VDB cents for sale all of the time. Probably from the fact they've been "popular" for year but try finding a nice some of the less popular dates...they ain't around...

 

jom

[BillJones]

I'd like to know where you see those "tons" of 1916-D Mercury dimes EXCEPT in AG-3 and FR-02. I see lots of those, but try to find one in a collector grade like VF or EF.

[Zoins]

I'd like to know where you see those "tons" of 1916-D Mercury dimes EXCEPT in AG-3 and FR-02. I see lots of those, but try to find one in a collector grade like VF or EF.

Get those FR2s down to PO1s and you'll have real collector grade coins. Actually I think problem free AG3 and FR2 can be considered collector grade as well, esp. in TPG plastic.

[Raybo55]

CN3 cent pieces are still relitivley cheap but are darn hard to find once you get to those pesky coins.

 

'84, '85, '87 and the proof only issues are like finding hens teeth (I have never seen a '77 for sale as of yet)

 

Damn you Prethen!

 

Ray

[Doogy]

for me personally, an 1887-1900 Queen Victoria British Crown set, all in MS64 and above.

[RUSS BEGA]

Seated Half's I collected them for 2 years and got about 10% of the entire collection done. There are a few challanges to the series #1 is finding nice unmessed with coins, many have been scruubed, damaged, polished, retoned ETC. the #2 the wide range of dates and key dates. many of the coins in the 1850's 60's and into the 70's can be found at resonable prices in cirulated conditions up to about xf-Au but the first year of issue is a nicer coin that is MUCH harder to find, the later dates (1880's) are proof only issues so no mater what even for a circulated example your paying a pretty penny for them. however the set being so challenging is what made it so enjoyable but sadly i sold all of mine to buy large cent. the worst mistake of my collecing life

[World Colonial]

I'd like to know where you see those "tons" of 1916-D Mercury dimes EXCEPT in AG-3 and FR-02. I see lots of those, but try to find one in a collector grade like VF or EF.

 

You are a dealer so you would know better than me, but I just took a look in the NGC census and it lists 1595 coins for the 1916-D dime. Some of them are the same coin due to multiple submissions but the PCGS and ANACS coins must be added. Now maybe since about 900 of them are below Fine and about 200 hundred are in the mid circulated grades, that is what you are referring to. When I looked on Heritage, most of the sales I saw (in 2007) were very low grade examples but there have also been several dozen high grade sales (AU or above) in 2007 which is still quite a bit by "rare" coin standards.

 

Here is another example I will throw in, the Draped Bust/Small Eagle Reverse half dollar which I have read might have 300 surviving coins. I agree that this coin is rare but there are still many opportunities to buy this coin for those who have the money.

[World Colonial]

CN3 cent pieces are still relitivley cheap but are darn hard to find once you get to those pesky coins.

 

'84, '85, '87 and the proof only issues are like finding hens teeth (I have never seen a '77 for sale as of yet)

 

Damn you Prethen!

 

Ray

 

I do not follow this series either but there are 12 1877 proofs listed on Heritage in 2007 alone. There are 21 for the '84, 19 for the '85 and 25 for the '87, all in 2007.

[TomB]

I'm addicted to Busties, and I find creating a collection of them a challenge, BUT, I don't think they are nearly as challenging as some other types of coins, like

 

Half Cents (try to find decent color whether its B RB or RED, and try to find a really nice planchet)

Matte Proof Lincolns (when they're beautiful they're beautiful, but when they're plain and ugly, they're plain and ugly)

Seated Dollars: try to find decent ones, search and search, most have been ruined.

 

Any ideas out there about difficult or challenging coinage?

 

Truly nice coinage.

[michael]

any choice xf and above small planchet pine tree shillings with totally original and centered planchets

basically they do not exist

even in choice xf and above on not so well centetred planchets with cleaned surfaces they are really rare

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------nice original dove grey hairline free full rims no adjustmark flowing hair half dollars

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nice original never cleaned undipped lusterous choice xf to au no hairlines flowing hair half dimes

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------totally thick skinned uncleaned original hairline free seated dollars vf-au

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

proof liberty gold with strong cameos but totally original thick original gold skins never dipped or enhanced the larger the better and of course the ten dollar is the scarcest demonination

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fully struck gem+ mintstate prooflike cameo with no streaks or stains flying eagle cents of 1857-1858

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

any uncirculated territorial gold especially so colorado pieces that are totally original unmolested RARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

original and prooflike choice unc. classic head quarter eagle gold

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nice original with wonderful coloration better date civil war era three dollar gold

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

originaal cased set toned strongly prooflike gem proof+ morgan dollars with the "look"

__________________________________________________________________

any hugely lusterous most importantly HUGE KILLER LUSTEROUS original choice unc. 1955 double die cent

 

THE TRUE american classic cent of any time or era

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

[jom]

I'd like to know where you see those "tons" of 1916-D Mercury dimes EXCEPT in AG-3 and FR-02. I see lots of those, but try to find one in a collector grade like VF or EF.

 

You are probably right bit I was referring to mint state coins as I don't really collect circulated (below AU) coinage so I don't really take notice of that.

 

jom

[MikeKing]

any choice xf and above small planchet pine tree shillings with totally original and centered planchets

basically they do not exist

even in choice xf and above on not so well centetred planchets with cleaned surfaces they are really rare

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------nice original dove grey hairline free full rims no adjustmark flowing hair half dollars

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nice original never cleaned undipped lusterous choice xf to au no hairlines flowing hair half dimes

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------totally thick skinned uncleaned original hairline free seated dollars vf-au

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

proof liberty gold with strong cameos but totally original thick original gold skins never dipped or enhanced the larger the better and of course the ten dollar is the scarcest demonination

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fully struck gem+ mintstate prooflike cameo with no streaks or stains flying eagle cents of 1857-1858

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

any uncirculated territorial gold especially so colorado pieces that are totally original unmolested RARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

original and prooflike choice unc. classic head quarter eagle gold

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nice original with wonderful coloration better date civil war era three dollar gold

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

originaal cased set toned strongly prooflike gem proof+ morgan dollars with the "look"

__________________________________________________________________

any hugely lusterous most importantly HUGE KILLER LUSTEROUS original choice unc. 1955 double die cent

 

THE TRUE american classic cent of any time or era

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

Michael, could you list something that I can afford????????

 

 

[World Colonial]

If someone is talking about a US series being hard to find generically in the sense of the coins coming up for sale, I do not see it for hardly any of them.

 

Well, that was kind of my point. I'm not interested in collecting "generic" coins. I've tried to find nice pieces I can afford. I'm sure I can go out right now and find an 09-D $5 Indian or 26-P Eagle or an 81-S Dollar for that matter. That isn't in my interest however. JTryka gave a few examples but try finding a 09-O $5 or a 12-S $5. Have fun NOT collecting anything because you probably won't find it.

 

You are right about the "so-called" rarities. I see many...in fact TONS...of 1916 Quarters, 16-D dimes and 09 VDB cents for sale all of the time. Probably from the fact they've been "popular" for year but try finding a nice some of the less popular dates...they ain't around...

 

jom

 

I still see a lot of those two coins you mentioned. Heritage lists 21 1909-O $5 gold in AU-50 to MS-63 and 14 1912-S in XF-40 or higher. All of these were sold in 2007. Not sure about the quality of these coins for the grade but they are still available. They are very expensive for sure.